Re: interesting, but.....fpbJune 16 2009, 14:47:18 UTC
1 - Why shoul Pacepa lie about an operation that achieved nothing and did not even do a whole lot of damage, that was a mere distraction?
2 - Bullshit. I have published about this particular lie several times and I don't want to repeat myself. The lie about Pius XII only got believed because, one, most of the people who remembered how things really were were dead, and, two, the world Press and media had a vested interest in attacking the Church. Don't you believe what you read in the papers - especially where the Church is concerned. As for Hochhuth, the only question about him was whether he was a Communist propagandist or a Nazi one; he might have been both, but the fact that "The Vicar" was staged by Erwin Piscator, colleague and successor of Berthold Brecht, strongly suggest that Pacepa is right in charging the Communist apparatus with it.
3 - That is utterly irrelevant to the American result. To say otherwise would be the same as to say that just because it suited Stalin, therefore the SS who destroyed the Warsaw ghetto and then the whole city were manoeuvred by him.
4 - The French war ended in 1954. The American war started in 1963, That is nine, count'em, nine years in which any trouble within South Vietnam did not involve any foreign protector. And as I said, it could have gone on for ever, if the Americans had understood what kind of war this was. The problem with the Americans is that they see everything as a "problem" to be solved, when often it is simply a "condition" to be endured.
5 - The North Vietnamese could get their conscripts to believe that they were fighting for their fatherland - like the conscript armies of the two world war. The Americans, obviously, were not.
6 - That the Indonesians are scared about Communists does not mean that Communists were a threat. It may rather have something to do that after the massacres of 1966 (IIRC), Soeharto taught them all that he had rescued them from the big evil Communist threat - whereas real, CIA-fingered Communists were only about 5,000, and the other half million who were butchered were just people whom Soeharto's faction wanted out of the way. Indonesia would do better to worry about its Islamists.
Re: interesting, but.....fellmamaJune 16 2009, 15:54:52 UTC
4--The US had begun pumping money and military advisors into Vietnam by the early 50s. Regardless, it's rather disingenuous to claim that "most of the vietnamese fighting weren't concerned with the international aspects"; how many soldiers in any war wholly understand the politics and diplomacy behind it?
2 - Bullshit. I have published about this particular lie several times and I don't want to repeat myself. The lie about Pius XII only got believed because, one, most of the people who remembered how things really were were dead, and, two, the world Press and media had a vested interest in attacking the Church. Don't you believe what you read in the papers - especially where the Church is concerned. As for Hochhuth, the only question about him was whether he was a Communist propagandist or a Nazi one; he might have been both, but the fact that "The Vicar" was staged by Erwin Piscator, colleague and successor of Berthold Brecht, strongly suggest that Pacepa is right in charging the Communist apparatus with it.
3 - That is utterly irrelevant to the American result. To say otherwise would be the same as to say that just because it suited Stalin, therefore the SS who destroyed the Warsaw ghetto and then the whole city were manoeuvred by him.
4 - The French war ended in 1954. The American war started in 1963, That is nine, count'em, nine years in which any trouble within South Vietnam did not involve any foreign protector. And as I said, it could have gone on for ever, if the Americans had understood what kind of war this was. The problem with the Americans is that they see everything as a "problem" to be solved, when often it is simply a "condition" to be endured.
5 - The North Vietnamese could get their conscripts to believe that they were fighting for their fatherland - like the conscript armies of the two world war. The Americans, obviously, were not.
6 - That the Indonesians are scared about Communists does not mean that Communists were a threat. It may rather have something to do that after the massacres of 1966 (IIRC), Soeharto taught them all that he had rescued them from the big evil Communist threat - whereas real, CIA-fingered Communists were only about 5,000, and the other half million who were butchered were just people whom Soeharto's faction wanted out of the way. Indonesia would do better to worry about its Islamists.
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