Thank you for speaking out. I also am outraged at the "Hitler's Pope" narrative that seems to be a commonplace in some circles.
And why is the Catholic Church singled out for allegations of collaboration? i seem to recall that the German Lutherans did not exactly cover themselves in glory during the Hitler years, but cooperated enthusiastically with the fascist enemy of religion.
I have heard rumors of some Protestant groups in Germany defying Hitler on religious grounds, but they are usually small denominations, the last ones anyone would expect to defy the giant, stupid, terrible power of fascism, Mormons or Christian Scientists.
Well, the majority of Lutherans were decidedly aligned with the Nazi state, but that was in great part to do with their tradition as a state church. It does not mean that they aligned their teachings, and in fact Hitler intended to "deal with them" along with the other churches, very thoroughly, after the war. On the other hand, a large minority of Lutherans broke away to found the "Confessing Church" in the name of freedom of conscience. Among their leaders was the WWI war hero Martin Niemoeller (author of the famous quotation: ~"When they came for the Communists, I was silent because I was not a Communist. When they came for the Jews..." etc). Another leader was the legendary theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who was murdered in early 1945 because the order was that he was by no means to survive the war. However, the "Confessing Church", like many other decent old-fashioned Germans, had underrated the willingness of the Nazis to stoop to any means and use any instruments against anyone they perceived as an enemy. They were
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There is a strange irony to this comment. You are outraged and deplore the "Hitler's Pope" meme and yet are prepared to accuse Lutherans of enthusiastic cooperation with the Nazi's?
But what interests me most is the final sentence, where you write of the power of The Mormens and the Christian Scientists. I've read a lot about the Mormons, including the bizarre Book of Mormon itself, but know nothing of the Christian Scientists. I'd be interested in finding out more, including something about the power their wield. Do you have a link or a recommendation for a starting point?
My dear man, the cooperation of the official Lutheran church with the Nazi regime is a fact, and you will find it so described in all the history books. In fact, I made excuses for it - I said that it was not enthusiastic, that it came from a long tradition of being a State church (same reason why a lot of Russian Orthodox were willing to be loyal to the Soviet state), and that a large minority - the "confessing Church" - tried to escape state control, only to be crushed by the most ruthless means and to experience martyrdom. If I had wanted to be nasty, I would have underlined that while the Catholics who became notorious for collaborating included no Church leaders and no first-class writers or thinkers, some leading Lutherans, including the famous theologians Stapel and Gogarten, were decidedly Hitlerite, and so was Heidegger, who claimed to see himself as a Lutheran theologian. I suggest you go see what Karl Barth, who was no Catholic, had to say about his fellow German Protestants.
I find it interesting that even thought John Cornwell's book is still on sale and still believed that he almost recanted in 2004.
"I would now argue, in the light of the debates and evidence following Hitler's Pope, that Pius XII had so little scope of action that it is impossible to judge the motives for his silence during the war, while Rome was under the heel of Mussolini and later occupied by Germany."
An imperfect and inadequate withdrawal of his charges perhaps, but probably something that should be added to each copy of his book. Its a perfect example of how difficult it is to get the cat back into the bag. Reminds me of the degree to which people believe the DaVinci Code to be based on fact.
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And why is the Catholic Church singled out for allegations of collaboration? i seem to recall that the German Lutherans did not exactly cover themselves in glory during the Hitler years, but cooperated enthusiastically with the fascist enemy of religion.
I have heard rumors of some Protestant groups in Germany defying Hitler on religious grounds, but they are usually small denominations, the last ones anyone would expect to defy the giant, stupid, terrible power of fascism, Mormons or Christian Scientists.
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But what interests me most is the final sentence, where you write of the power of The Mormens and the Christian Scientists. I've read a lot about the Mormons, including the bizarre Book of Mormon itself, but know nothing of the Christian Scientists. I'd be interested in finding out more, including something about the power their wield. Do you have a link or a recommendation for a starting point?
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"I would now argue, in the light of the debates and evidence following Hitler's Pope, that Pius XII had so little scope of action that it is impossible to judge the motives for his silence during the war, while Rome was under the heel of Mussolini and later occupied by Germany."
An imperfect and inadequate withdrawal of his charges perhaps, but probably something that should be added to each copy of his book. Its a perfect example of how difficult it is to get the cat back into the bag. Reminds me of the degree to which people believe the DaVinci Code to be based on fact.
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Or when I reprinted this article:
http://fpb.livejournal.com/115021.html
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