fpb

The religion of atheism

Apr 13, 2008 13:33

There is one tremendous and widespread mistake about atheism: that is, that it is not a religion - that it somehow even opposes religion. Many of us, including many Christians, accept this claim implicitly, using the nouns "atheism" and "religion" as opposites.( Read more... )

atheism, christianity, religion, philosophy, polemics

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Re: A few questions madfedor April 18 2008, 14:47:21 UTC
Finally, do you understand what I mean when I say that the job of defamation carried out by early Christians against competing religions when they called them "village practices" ("paganism") is the same in kind as that carried out by atheists when they claim to oppose "atheism" to "religon"?

That is an excellent and key question in this topic. While we may find agreement that, as philosophies of existence, religion and atheism may co-exist in isolation, we must not ignore the cultural dynamics. The comparison between, for example, Sagan and Dawkins is an excellent point on which to focus. We (general) often focus on the egregious violence committed against the early Christians by the Roman government, but it must be emphasized that the punishments were for the crime of refusing to acknowledge and participate in the rituals of the state religion. History is rife with similar examples of religious violence. We should not be surprised that Dawkinsesque rhetoric is taken in that light.

The conflict I see is in the unconscious comparison between acquired and revealed. Christianity starts as a revealed (holy text, catechism, etc.) belief system; modern paganisms start as acquired (i.e. experiential) belief systems. Again, consider: one does not discover on one's own that a person named Jesus was the son of God, preached a radically new message for his time, and was executed-resurrected-ascended to heaven on behalf of humanity, then suddenly meet others who have the same belief. At some point well beyond our lifetimes, Wicca may morph into a revealed belief system, and arguably is already somewhat down that path. But, as a subset member of "paganism", it remains a belief system that one can at least to a certain point discover for one's self.

Another point of conflict is mythos. Christianity (and other belief systems) have established mythos that define the belief system in a sort of feedback loop. Wicca has a short list of core beliefs, but no unifying mythos. From where I sit, you are making the mythos mistake: you see unification structure in some religions, and failing to find it in paganism make the fallacious comparison underlying your (unfortuante, grin) usage of "religious masturbation". I would expect pagan reconstructionists to recognize this, since their effort is primarily focused on learning the original mythos and attempting to work it into contemporary contexts.

My rebuttal would look something like this: You expect a religion to partake in an established, revealed mythos that provides easily recognized structure and continuity. Modern pagans approach mythos as individuals, discover like-minded fellows with whom to form community and joint exploration, and acquire their beliefs as part of their journey.

That there are exceptions to my generalizations is stipulated. I do not believe they necessarily invalidate the abstract level of my argument.

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Re: A few questions fpb April 18 2008, 16:19:27 UTC
The previous comment in this place is deleted due to utter stupidity on my part. But as for an atheist "mythos", have you ever read CS Lewis' great essay "The funeral of a great myth"? If you have not, have a look. If you cannot access it for whatever reason, I will publish it in this blog for your advantage. Lewis makes a formidable argument that a myth for modern atheism does indeed esist - and he is rather too optimistic, in my view, in saying that it was already dying out in his time.

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Re: A few questions madfedor April 18 2008, 18:28:43 UTC
I'll look for the essay. I believe I can offer this clarification despite not having read it:

Criticizing a belief system in terms of one's own belief system is invalid. It becomes a projection of one's beliefs onto the mythos of the "target", giving utterly predictable, false results like "modern pagans don't have a unified creation myth, therefore they are not a religion."

I don't mean to put words in your mouth. I do mean to reject the notion that Christian apologia has much credibility when it criticizes other belief systems. I apply the same standard to my fellow pagans when they engage in Christian bashing, and I reject the same from Dawkins and his "talking snake" snark.

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Re: A few questions fpb April 18 2008, 18:46:48 UTC
You wasted a couple of paragraphs on fighting Aunt Sallies of your own creation. Both Lewis and I have long since read and internalized GK Chesterton's advice that it is perfectly dumb to charge an atheist with the dreadful crime of Atheism, or a Communist with the awful heresy of Communism. What you have to do is understand what they are saying. And I suggest you read the essay before you try reacting to what you have not read again.

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Re: A few questions nicked_metal April 19 2008, 02:01:53 UTC
Ahhh, but was he trying to fight you, or was he trying to explain what he was thinking?

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Re: A few questions nicked_metal April 19 2008, 02:01:34 UTC
The Funeral of a Great Myth. Just read it, quite impressed. The last paragraph is especially good, although the emphasis by the person who posted it is a bit weird.

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Re: A few questions fpb April 19 2008, 03:22:13 UTC
Thank you, but this is only a selection of the essay. No wonder the thread was confused as to what Lewis and the poster meant. I will now post the whole, uncut essay, and apologize to Lewis' shadow.

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Re: A few questions nicked_metal April 19 2008, 08:13:48 UTC
Aha! Thanks.

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Re: A few questions fpb April 19 2008, 19:41:14 UTC
It is now up (took a lot more work than I thought).

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