I have some questions about warnings. I read a post where somebody argued that when you post a pairing it is redundant to also classify the story as het or slash
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This isn't exactly related to your question, but I'm going to go the other way and say that I'm troubled by the overabundance of warnings and find them to be more of a hindrance than a help, particularly as a writer. Often, I don't particularly want to warn for something like the death of a character, for example; that's giving away a major plot point and sacrificing some of the emotional reaction I'm going for when a character dies suddenly. I feel like if I've given the reader the knowledge that this is a story that deals with serious issues (either through the rating, the summary or both) it shouldn't be incumbent on me to line out exactly what's going to happen that someone may find troubling. I feel the same way as a reader; too many warnings just feel like spoilers to me for what I'm about to read.
If a reader finds themselves reading something they don't like, they can back-click just like anyone else. I find it difficult to imagine that stumbling upon a character's death in a piece of fan fiction when one wasn't pre-warned for it is actually going to be traumatizing in some way. You don't get these kinds of specific warnings for television or novels or any other kind of storytelling we routinely consume, so what makes fan fiction any different?
I usually don't have the problem because my stories often don't have much plot. I have considered putting "sad ending" or "happy ending" labels on it (I write a lot of unhappy endings). Then I quickly feel stupid for doing it.
You can also never know just what will upset somebody. Some people might be really sensitive to animals getting hurt. I read there was a fandom where one character had long hair and people demanded warnings for fic where he cut his hair because it traumatized them so much. There might me things that set somebody off that you never would have considered and you can't really think of everything.
Maybe there should be a label like 'dark' or 'gritty' that signals that character death can happen, but maybe not.
You can also never know just what will upset somebody.
That's true, but I don't really think it should be the responsibility of the writer to ensure that readers don't unknowingly run across anything they might potentially find offensive. That way lies madness, and I think some authors (all present company excepted) overabundant use of warnings already borders on it. The most comprehensive ratings system I've ever seen in mass media is the one that movies and premium channels use. They give a rating with a explanation of how that rating came about, such as MA/R for sexual content and violence. Most fan fiction headers have this level of information without having to resort to numerous specific warnings, and I think that's a perfectly adequate amount of information to supply to an audience for them to be able to make an informed decision about whether to watch/read or not.
If you're unwilling to risk being offended or upset by storytelling elements, then I sort of feel like that's your issue and not the author's. Sometimes I run across things I find upsetting, so I stop reading. But I don't blame the author for that upset; I chose to read and take my chances with the content in hopes of being entertained, just like we do every day with movies, television, novels, etc. To use your (admittedly hyperbolic) example, if someone gets traumatized by reading about a haircut, obviously the solution is they shouldn't be reading fan fiction and/or they should take responsibility for their own reaction to what they read rather than all authors should now warn for haircuts.
I think what you're saying is absolutely valid. But the sad thing is that when it comes to fanfic, people don't seem to be able to approach it as they would a book they pulled off a shelf from the library. Readers want to know exactly what they're getting: pairing, exact rating of language, any hint of taboo topics like domestic abuse, child endangerment, rape, death. All things an editor of a novel would never give away on the inside of the jacket cover.
But fanfic readers will crucify an author who doesn't tell them the surprise ending where Michael or insert-hero-of-the-show dies. Sadly, we've seen it a million times. They don't care if it's the most well-written compelling story on earth, they want to avoid it and they will flame the writer who doesn't tell them in advance. So there's a fear-factor involved in warning, too.
I think it may be a symptom of the inherent nature of fanfic. We read fic to continue our enjoyment of the show, and a segment of fic readers only want to enjoy and be entertained by the fic. They don't want to be engaged in serious literary works. And certainly, that's valid. But what it has produced is this need to overwarn to make everyone happy and maintain a comfort-level.
And I'm not saying it's entirely bad, I honestly to like the idea that by warning I can put my readers at ease and help them to enjoy what I'm throwing out. But I understand the frustration of having to include so many warnings, particularly ones that spoil. But again, I think it is an author's choice to put what she wants in the warnings and if you don't want to list every controversial scene in detail or every bad word that's said in a piece, you shouldn't feel compelled to do so. And the forum you post at really shouldn't dictate that, either. (tho I suppose that's a whole other can of worms).
It's said that we do it because we are afraid of each other.
Maybe one reason why people are more accepting with a real book is because there is a bigger quality control. Not just everybody can write a book. They need to have a certain quality to be sold, they have to invent new characters and a plot that fills a whole book. Maybe that is why we give them more freedom not to warn.
It is sad, but I think, perhaps it may not exactly be fear. At the heart of sharing one's work, I suppose is the idea that we're sharing a part of ourselves, so we want our stories to be accepted. By facilitating people's reading of our stories we encourage the acceptance. Maybe that's it. I dunno!
And I think the idea that in general, people see fanfic and being not "real" writing is probably a very important aspect of it too. (tho I've read some fanfic that blows a lot of pro novels I've read out of the water that's for certain!) But in general, that seems to be the norm. We can demand more because we expect less. A very good point.
I completely agree re. the 'character death' warning. I've always found that bizarre. Surely one should be able to tell from the tone of the story whether it is a serious, dramatic story, and then taking that on board, accept that the writer may take you to some troubling places.
And yes, any warnings that are in effect spoilers should not be expected of writers IMO.
As for the people who were upset by the 'hair cutting', if anyone ever whined at me about something like that in a piece I had written, I would be seriously tempted to tell them to just grow up, honestly.
If a reader finds themselves reading something they don't like, they can back-click just like anyone else. I find it difficult to imagine that stumbling upon a character's death in a piece of fan fiction when one wasn't pre-warned for it is actually going to be traumatizing in some way. You don't get these kinds of specific warnings for television or novels or any other kind of storytelling we routinely consume, so what makes fan fiction any different?
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I usually don't have the problem because my stories often don't have much plot. I have considered putting "sad ending" or "happy ending" labels on it (I write a lot of unhappy endings). Then I quickly feel stupid for doing it.
You can also never know just what will upset somebody. Some people might be really sensitive to animals getting hurt. I read there was a fandom where one character had long hair and people demanded warnings for fic where he cut his hair because it traumatized them so much. There might me things that set somebody off that you never would have considered and you can't really think of everything.
Maybe there should be a label like 'dark' or 'gritty' that signals that character death can happen, but maybe not.
Reply
That's true, but I don't really think it should be the responsibility of the writer to ensure that readers don't unknowingly run across anything they might potentially find offensive. That way lies madness, and I think some authors (all present company excepted) overabundant use of warnings already borders on it. The most comprehensive ratings system I've ever seen in mass media is the one that movies and premium channels use. They give a rating with a explanation of how that rating came about, such as MA/R for sexual content and violence. Most fan fiction headers have this level of information without having to resort to numerous specific warnings, and I think that's a perfectly adequate amount of information to supply to an audience for them to be able to make an informed decision about whether to watch/read or not.
If you're unwilling to risk being offended or upset by storytelling elements, then I sort of feel like that's your issue and not the author's. Sometimes I run across things I find upsetting, so I stop reading. But I don't blame the author for that upset; I chose to read and take my chances with the content in hopes of being entertained, just like we do every day with movies, television, novels, etc. To use your (admittedly hyperbolic) example, if someone gets traumatized by reading about a haircut, obviously the solution is they shouldn't be reading fan fiction and/or they should take responsibility for their own reaction to what they read rather than all authors should now warn for haircuts.
Reply
But fanfic readers will crucify an author who doesn't tell them the surprise ending where Michael or insert-hero-of-the-show dies. Sadly, we've seen it a million times. They don't care if it's the most well-written compelling story on earth, they want to avoid it and they will flame the writer who doesn't tell them in advance. So there's a fear-factor involved in warning, too.
I think it may be a symptom of the inherent nature of fanfic. We read fic to continue our enjoyment of the show, and a segment of fic readers only want to enjoy and be entertained by the fic. They don't want to be engaged in serious literary works. And certainly, that's valid. But what it has produced is this need to overwarn to make everyone happy and maintain a comfort-level.
And I'm not saying it's entirely bad, I honestly to like the idea that by warning I can put my readers at ease and help them to enjoy what I'm throwing out. But I understand the frustration of having to include so many warnings, particularly ones that spoil. But again, I think it is an author's choice to put what she wants in the warnings and if you don't want to list every controversial scene in detail or every bad word that's said in a piece, you shouldn't feel compelled to do so. And the forum you post at really shouldn't dictate that, either. (tho I suppose that's a whole other can of worms).
Reply
Maybe one reason why people are more accepting with a real book is because there is a bigger quality control. Not just everybody can write a book. They need to have a certain quality to be sold, they have to invent new characters and a plot that fills a whole book. Maybe that is why we give them more freedom not to warn.
Reply
And I think the idea that in general, people see fanfic and being not "real" writing is probably a very important aspect of it too. (tho I've read some fanfic that blows a lot of pro novels I've read out of the water that's for certain!) But in general, that seems to be the norm. We can demand more because we expect less. A very good point.
Reply
And yes, any warnings that are in effect spoilers should not be expected of writers IMO.
As for the people who were upset by the 'hair cutting', if anyone ever whined at me about something like that in a piece I had written, I would be seriously tempted to tell them to just grow up, honestly.
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