Gaslighting

Aug 20, 2014 02:05

Sometimes, the issues of the day are SO far screwed that it's impossible to even start with the problems. Every sentence that is publicized has problems that are so numerous and intrinsic that by the time you've unpacked, analyzed, and disposed of the issues in just that one sentence, you've lost the thread of the overall point and problem ( Read more... )

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baron_waste August 20 2014, 08:14:18 UTC


a) Note that outside agitators i e  “racial entrepreneurs” are already showing up from NY and CA.  At this point the motives of the situation shift away from what actually happened or didn't.

b) Obama is promising “justice” to “African American leaders.” How do you suppose he defines that?  Take two guesses.  (Remember how he horned in on the Zimmerman case?)  “Presumptive guilt” is right.

On the other hand…  The drop in force complaints is because the cops started behaving themselves.  The beating of Rodney King was exceptional for being caught on video, not for occurring.  Some years ago a dashboard camera caught a South Carolina State trooper going screaming berserk ballistic because a motorist didn't do as she was told fast enough.  Deep gouges were found in the case where said officer then tried to “amend his remarks.”  You'll find a Youtube video where the entire tenor of a traffic stop changed when the initially hostile, threatening cop realized that he was being remote-recorded (nothing to confiscate).

With that said, a shift in perception is necessary.  You're using the word “police” with a built-in assumption of basically friendly law enforcement, don't make trouble for them and they won't make trouble for you.  This is the wrong interpretation.  These are military-armed, military-armored troops, patrolling and pacifying what is only technically United States territory.  They are an army of occupation, holding down a sullen, hostile, culturally alien subject population who know that no one wants them, *  know that they have nothing and are going nowhere, know they're getting the short end of the stick and blame the larger white society around them for their problems and shortcomings.  Certainly they have no wish to voluntarily uphold the laws and standards of that enemy society.  There's a reason why any large-scale black protest or civil upset immediately and inevitably degenerates into looting, as this did - they're plundering spoils of war.  As they see it they have a right to loot whenever possible, and always do - only the threat of force prevents it ever, and when that threat is neutralized, away we go!

Yet a shrugged, honest agreement with this assessment would introduce martial law, with orders to shoot on sight. We may yet see that happen, now the National Guard has been called in.

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*  Remember Jesse Jackson's “Rainbow Coalition,” a k a “All Browns Against Whitey Coalition”?  It fell apart and disappeared for one simple reason:  Hispanics have no patience for the problems of blacks and have no wish to be associated with them, and Asians regard them as dangerous, feral but somewhat trainable beasts.  This does not produce unity of purpose, particularly when that purpose is simply “gimme gimme,” looting by another name.

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jordan179 August 20 2014, 13:21:41 UTC
a) Note that outside agitators i e “racial entrepreneurs” are already showing up from NY and CA. At this point the motives of the situation shift away from what actually happened or didn't.

That's a key point. Unlike the locals, the riot tourists have absolutely no concern with the state of the neighborhood and no inhibitions against looting it, because it is not their neighborhood. The existence of riot tourists is why we need to clamp down harder on criminals caught looting, etc. in a riot -- if we put the hardcore ones in prison for serious stretches, we prevent a lot of future trouble elsewhere.

b) Obama is promising “justice” to “African American leaders.” How do you suppose he defines that? Take two guesses. (Remember how he horned in on the Zimmerman case?) “Presumptive guilt” is right.

Obama's attitude also does immense damage to the city threatened by riot, since it puts police officers in a position where they must choose between their careers and actually protecting the public. The easiest thing for the police to do in that sort of situation is just stay out of the neighborhood and let it be destroyed.

This is, of course, usually a black neighborhood.

Remember Jesse Jackson's “Rainbow Coalition,” a k a “All Browns Against Whitey Coalition”? It fell apart and disappeared for one simple reason: Hispanics have no patience for the problems of blacks and have no wish to be associated with them, and Asians regard them as dangerous, feral but somewhat trainable beasts. This does not produce unity of purpose, particularly when that purpose is simply “gimme gimme,” looting by another name.

Modern Black American political leaders don't seem to grasp that they have a problem with their reputation: they assume that their moral purity is such due to the fact that some of their ancestors were slaves that everyone else must scramble to please them. The consequence is that nobody really likes American blacks, as a group, save for teenagers who think that being bad is cool. And most of the teenagers grow out of that attitude.

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baron_waste August 21 2014, 13:03:22 UTC

The easiest thing for the police to do in that sort of situation is just stay out of the neighborhood and let it be destroyed

It's called “de-policing,” and it's happened for years, and no, actually it's ALWAYS a black neighborhood.

“A Seattle policeman explained de-policing as:  'Parking under a shady tree to work on a crossword puzzle is a great alternative to being labeled a racist and being dragged through an inquest, a review board, an FBI and U.S. attorney investigation and a lawsuit.'” - Walter E. Williams, August 6, 2001

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prester_scott August 21 2014, 13:18:59 UTC
Maybe someday soon we'll be doing this to Muslim neighborhoods too, like they do in Europe.

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jordan179 August 21 2014, 14:00:27 UTC
Hopefully not -- the underclass blacks are just violent dumbasses, while the Muslims actually have organization and purpose.

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baron_waste August 21 2014, 16:02:25 UTC

Well, they have a society, and that's not quite the same thing.  A Communist cell has organization and purpose, but they don't conduct weddings, what I mean to say.

The result is the same problem as with Chinatown:  If you're having a problem, do you go to the civil government, or to the local jefe?  The one is an indifferent insulated bureaucracy; the other knew your father.  The one applies standard procedures; the other fixes the problem.  On the other hand, “indifferent” means you're free, where the jefe's rule is total…  and turning away means turning out, becoming unwelcome in the only community, the only life you've ever known.

You can see how the high-school civics textbooks would be speaking a doubly foreign language.  Into what are you expected to “assimilate”?  To whom do you give your oath of fealty?  The “mayor”?  A flag on the wall?!  “I pledge my life, my fortune and my honor to this burger wrapper…”  Something essential seems to have got lost in translation - and it has, for even in America “liberty” is just a word on a coin now, while in the countries of the Old World it only exists in the cracks of the God-State.  Hardly surprising that the newcomers choose to stay with what has always worked for them.

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jordan179 August 22 2014, 01:01:43 UTC
Yet the Chinese were able to assimilate despite truly horrible pressures put on them by the surrounding society -- they were treated as inferior to blacks in LAW in California, and immigration quotas were put on Chinese women to try to prevent them from successfully planting a cultural colony in America. The unassimilated Chinese of today are almost all first or second-generation immigrants; the descendants of the Chinese of 50-100 years ago are distinguishable from most Americans mostly by being more hard-working, successful and virtuous on the average than the non-Chinese!

This may be why black Americans hate them -- the success of the Chinese and other Oriental immigrants in America is like a reproach to the failure of the blacks.

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jordan179 August 21 2014, 14:01:57 UTC
It's called “de-policing,” and it's happened for years, and no, actually it's ALWAYS a black neighborhood.

I never claimed it was anything but a black neighborhood, but I would point out that we used to take that kind of approach to Chinatowns as well.

The amazing thing is that there are so many blacks who don't get why this would be bad for them.

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baron_waste August 21 2014, 14:24:39 UTC
The difference there being that the various Chinatowns, just as with Hong Kong, had their own laws and punishments for breaking same. Alien to Western tradition, and it's not a good thing to harbor immiscible, linguistically-isolated foreign countries within one's own - which as has been said, is one of the biggest problems with the Muslim immigrants of today; in what sense are all those “Asians” (a recognized code word) one reads of in the UK press, British? - but the difference is that they HAD laws, and the moral structure of an ancient society. In the absence of police, all the black regions have is gangbangers.

Now, that could change, but don't look for that kind of genuinely progressive leadership from the civil-rights-shakedown-racket “black leaders.” They owe their political power to their skill at gaming the system - they're certainly not going to change the game!

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ford_prefect42 August 22 2014, 00:32:00 UTC
Hmmm... I guess that it occurs to me that in a democratic nation, it might be appropriate to actually ask the neighborhood if they WANT police protection. If they don't, then I am not certain that I see any moral justification for inflicting it on them.

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jordan179 August 22 2014, 01:02:46 UTC
There's an obvious reason. If you don't police neighborhoods, they become refuges for criminals who may then raid outside their neighborhoods. Furthermore, even if the criminals don't, you're essentially losing control of your own national soil.

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ford_prefect42 August 22 2014, 01:21:43 UTC
Those are consequentialist reasons, not moral ones. Furthermore, easily dealt with in the main.

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jordan179 August 22 2014, 03:25:29 UTC
Those are consequentialist reasons, not moral ones.

The moral one is that you owe your own citizens defense from those criminals. And I find the claim mildly astonishing that worrying about consequences is somehow immoral.

Furthermore, easily dealt with in the main.

No, it's inherently difficult to deal with. If people can move freely between the non-policed neighborhood and the policed neighborhood, it's incredibly difficult to prevent criminals from going into the policed neighborhood, striking a target, and then retreating into their sanctuary zone.

This is due to geometry. Need I explain further, or do you see it now?

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August, 2001 baron_waste August 21 2014, 14:01:14 UTC
http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/2001/aug%202001/806cin.htm

“During the riots, anger at the police quickly turned to anger at all whites. Rioters dragged a white woman from her car and beat her. But after the riots, local leaders rushed to defuse black anger. They quickly agreed to mediation in a racial profiling suit they had been determined to fight. They meekly asked the Justice Department to take a look at their police practices.

“Long lists of demands included the alleged necessity for "diversity training" of police and importance of restoring a cut in a community youth program (the cut had been made because of scandal -- the agency billed the city for $156,000 for a program that cost just over $16,000 to operate). Last summer, an amusement park north of the city imported a thousand young Eastern Europeans for summer jobs because it could find no local youths to apply. Yet now there are demands to create thousands of summer jobs to forestall another rampage.

This pressure is the result of what urban historian Fred Siegel calls "riot ideology" -- the belief that all black grievances are legitimate and must be assuaged at all costs. Siegel is a professor at Cooper Union in New York City and author of "The Future Once Happened Here: New York, D.C., Los Angeles, and the Fate of America's Big Cities." He thinks Cincinnati is giving in to riot ideology at the moment other cities have learned to avoid it…”

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ford_prefect42 August 20 2014, 14:06:34 UTC
a) yes, that's certainly an issue. Once they show up, you can no longer presume that those on the streets have *any* interest in reason or justice, only in loot, plunder, and mayhem.

b) That sems to be the prevailing demand. Not for "investigation", or even "trial", but instead for "punishment" of this officer that, from what I can see, did absolutely nothing wrong, and in fact acted like a true hero for continuing to pursue a dangerous criminal after having his eye socket broken.

"The drop in force complaints is because the cops started behaving themselves."

I think that it's likely some of both. Yes, an officer that knows this is being recorded will be more likely to follow procedures, and will be slower to use force (which ill probably result in a higher police fatality rate). However, knowing that they are being recorded, and that therefore, their story will not be believed, I suspect that thugs ALSO are on better behavior.

On your "shift in perception" paragraph... These are the *same* cops that are also "friendly law enforcement"! The same individuals, acting the same, following the same regulations! The thing that's different is how the community interacts with them.

Yes, I know that essentially, the ghetto is pacified territory, that these are people that believe themselves victims with no prospects... But what is obnoxious to me is that that perceptions has been *engineered* within the last few decades. MLK would not recognize his people. In the 60s, under outright segregation, the Black population of America was an American population striving to better the nation. Now... not so much. What can have happened? Welfare, Affirmative action, quotas, reparations. Mostly welfare.

Which, oddly enough, means that the plight of the african american really *is* "whitey's fault", for taking away their incentive to be better. For institutionalizing the condescension that they can't be expected to be *fully* human... But the culprits are the people and philosophy that keeps clamoring for *more* of the very thing that destroyed them.... Which I guess is the way of it with pushers and addictions.

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prester_scott August 20 2014, 18:58:56 UTC
What can have happened? Welfare, Affirmative action, quotas, reparations. Mostly welfare.

Don't forget also the War on Drugs, ensuring that the best opportunities for profit and status are vile and degrading, as well as branding you into the underclass for life if you get caught.

Also there is a sizeable portion of the political class that is actually in league with the communist agitators, overtly or covertly. That was probably true before the 1960s but it is more so today.

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