(Um, it didn't all fit in one comment? Sorry, sorry.)
Besides (and though I couldn't suspend my disbelief about Snow's battle skills when the viewer was never shown any training scene and the movie made it look as though there wasn't any and Snow went to war directly upon waking), I don't think Snow's beauty is what saves her, in the end. Her 'goodness' is what saves her, as well as her (supposed) skills as a warrior, or at least the bravery (coughmadnesscough) that pushes her to go to war. She is shown 'strategizing' (if you can call it that) - she is an intelligent woman, ready to fight for what she believes in and to decide herself. Though she is more beautiful than the Queen, the only thing that provokes is the Queen's hate mixed with latent sexual desire for her. At no point does Snow or any of her allies mention her being beautiful as a reason to follow her into battle (though I don't really know why they do it. Her speech was cringe-worthy, as were her attempts at strategizing.)
I did still think that Snow White could have been shown as stronger a woman. Her dress was ridiculous (let's not even talk about the leather pants she wore underneath, I get that she's a warrior, but that just didn't make any sense, plot-wise) and she wasn't as active as I would have liked, be it in the field or in her romantic life.
(And the mix of paganism and Catholicism was just mind-boggling to me, historically cringe-worthy, and really badly used in the plot. Why the stag? Is his being killed a big deal? Is he immortal? Is he a god? Does he answer to her or does she answer to him? (And still about nature - if the Queen didn't control the bad forest, who did? It does suggest the idea of an evil greater than the Queen, however, which kind of makes sense with what I said?)).
So those were my thoughts, sorry if it was long and convoluted. (There are so many more things that confused me about this movie, though. What is the scene with the Queen and the ravens about? Why was what's-her-name locked back into the dungeons after she was 'drained' by the Queen? Wasn't the Queen's brother supposed to be dead? Why so many bad plot decisions? This movie honestly makes me worry for the future of cinema, I'm not kidding.)
Oh, and just for fun, the misogynist/sexist movie line of the week, said by a man: "It's my fault I am bad at the only thing a woman is supposed to be good at." (Giving birth. From What to expect when you're expecting. CRINGE.)
I mean, it was a pretty dreadful movie, all told, but I am totally fascinated by fairytales and what different retellings of fairytales can tell us about society's expectations of women at the time. Like in, this one, Snow White is WAY less passive, which is awesome - and the movie was heavily promoted with that warrior theme, all the posters and stuff had KStew in her armour, riding into battle.
But the beauty=virtue and trying to be beautiful=evil was actually, like, more explicit than in the original tale. It was deconstructed to some extent, but not very well, because the film was pretty shitty and couldn't really construct a decent plotline, much less subvert one.
I totally think Snow was showing other qualities, like bravery and smarts (or, we're told she's smart, but that battle plan was absurd) but it's her inherent 'virtue' that's pushed in the scene with the white stag, that the dwarves claim will heal the land and that virtue is explicitly linked to her beauty, and even if it wasn't it's the kind of 'virtue' that involves being pious and praying and not touching men and being innocent and excessively sheltered from the world (which is totally a great quality in a head of state) and NOTHING HAS CHANGED since the Brothers Grimm were doing this shit, not one god damned thing.
Just: oh my God, don't get angry, I wasn't trying to undermine what you were saying or anything, just sharing my thoughts? I have so much admiration but your writing and the way you think, seriously.
I agree that the way the movie was promoted and the way it showed Snow White as being a strong, warrior woman was great. I just don't think the movie lived up to that promise. (Though KStew does look fetching in mail, Chris has a point there.)
I think the main problem of the movie is that it could've been really good, and ended up not living up to its potential. It could have been a movie about a strong woman and a criticism of the fairytales' vision of women's place in society and the things they should try to achieve, but it wasn't.
I agree with everything you say, I do. The image of women in our society is deplorable and makes me want to cry and I still want someone to explain 50 shades of grey to me because what.
I am not angry at you! Fairytales make me angry a lot. Which meant I spent a stretch of many months often angry while I was writing my thesis. But I like talking about things like this, and hearing what other people's thoughts are! I am going to see Brave tonight, so my next post will hopefully be significantly more "the world apparently is not all sucky".
My thesis was entitled "Stepmothers, Witches and Servants: Interfeminine Relationships in the Tales of the Brothers Grimm" and was mostly about how classical fairytales don't have any room for positive, supportive female relationships - if a lady is not your blood relative, she is your competition and must be vanquished. Which was one tiny aspect of a whole bunch of stuff I could have discussed, but 20,000 words was not nearly sufficient to detail all of the shitty gender politics going on. SO I get REALLY fired up about gender and fairytales.
Besides (and though I couldn't suspend my disbelief about Snow's battle skills when the viewer was never shown any training scene and the movie made it look as though there wasn't any and Snow went to war directly upon waking), I don't think Snow's beauty is what saves her, in the end. Her 'goodness' is what saves her, as well as her (supposed) skills as a warrior, or at least the bravery (coughmadnesscough) that pushes her to go to war. She is shown 'strategizing' (if you can call it that) - she is an intelligent woman, ready to fight for what she believes in and to decide herself. Though she is more beautiful than the Queen, the only thing that provokes is the Queen's hate mixed with latent sexual desire for her. At no point does Snow or any of her allies mention her being beautiful as a reason to follow her into battle (though I don't really know why they do it. Her speech was cringe-worthy, as were her attempts at strategizing.)
I did still think that Snow White could have been shown as stronger a woman. Her dress was ridiculous (let's not even talk about the leather pants she wore underneath, I get that she's a warrior, but that just didn't make any sense, plot-wise) and she wasn't as active as I would have liked, be it in the field or in her romantic life.
(And the mix of paganism and Catholicism was just mind-boggling to me, historically cringe-worthy, and really badly used in the plot. Why the stag? Is his being killed a big deal? Is he immortal? Is he a god? Does he answer to her or does she answer to him? (And still about nature - if the Queen didn't control the bad forest, who did? It does suggest the idea of an evil greater than the Queen, however, which kind of makes sense with what I said?)).
So those were my thoughts, sorry if it was long and convoluted. (There are so many more things that confused me about this movie, though. What is the scene with the Queen and the ravens about? Why was what's-her-name locked back into the dungeons after she was 'drained' by the Queen? Wasn't the Queen's brother supposed to be dead? Why so many bad plot decisions? This movie honestly makes me worry for the future of cinema, I'm not kidding.)
Oh, and just for fun, the misogynist/sexist movie line of the week, said by a man: "It's my fault I am bad at the only thing a woman is supposed to be good at." (Giving birth. From What to expect when you're expecting. CRINGE.)
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But the beauty=virtue and trying to be beautiful=evil was actually, like, more explicit than in the original tale. It was deconstructed to some extent, but not very well, because the film was pretty shitty and couldn't really construct a decent plotline, much less subvert one.
I totally think Snow was showing other qualities, like bravery and smarts (or, we're told she's smart, but that battle plan was absurd) but it's her inherent 'virtue' that's pushed in the scene with the white stag, that the dwarves claim will heal the land and that virtue is explicitly linked to her beauty, and even if it wasn't it's the kind of 'virtue' that involves being pious and praying and not touching men and being innocent and excessively sheltered from the world (which is totally a great quality in a head of state) and NOTHING HAS CHANGED since the Brothers Grimm were doing this shit, not one god damned thing.
(Sorry, got a bit angry at the end there)
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I agree that the way the movie was promoted and the way it showed Snow White as being a strong, warrior woman was great. I just don't think the movie lived up to that promise. (Though KStew does look fetching in mail, Chris has a point there.)
I think the main problem of the movie is that it could've been really good, and ended up not living up to its potential. It could have been a movie about a strong woman and a criticism of the fairytales' vision of women's place in society and the things they should try to achieve, but it wasn't.
I agree with everything you say, I do. The image of women in our society is deplorable and makes me want to cry and I still want someone to explain 50 shades of grey to me because what.
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I am going to see Brave tonight, so my next post will hopefully be significantly more "the world apparently is not all sucky".
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Oh, enjoy the movie, then! It does seem awesome.
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