The Ancient World & Feminism. Part 1. Athens and Sparta
So, my fellow feminist. I would like to bring to the table, a single question. Where do you think it started? The suppression of women, that is. Where indeed. What the is the root of this evil? Well since I am pretty fail at helping any other feminist discussion, I can help with this. (Since everyone should do their part.) Here is my imput. Because I have become aware a lot of people simply do not know this. This, being he history of suppression. Starting way, way, waaaaaay back.
Stating now that I will only do this until the Medieval Period, because that is a) where my history runs out and b) hopefully people know where it goes from there.
The suppression comes from many sources, before America or Australia ever mattered as a chunk of land. I disputed a lot with my self, traced cultures back and came upon a couple. But I figured there is one that I think had a larger share in it then all the others. So where to we start this? Ancient Greece, children, Ancient Greece is where we must begin this long story, but again you can argue it has several starting point, but this, I feel, is the one to begin with. Not the earliest of civilizations as they go, but every story has to start somewhere. So get your time machine hats on kiddies and take my hand, Aunty Lily is going to take you into the grizzly past that most of us don't remember, or consider, but seem to be fighting anyway. And perhaps we will begin to actually understand were the suppression comes from.
Anyway because I find pictures help associate people with things, there will be many, I apologies for any bandwidth killage now.
To start with, please refer to this map (yes this is what we call the "Ancient" World... Persia is there to, and yes we will talk about it sorta) so you know where people are and cities and everything else:
Britain, Rome, Greece -->>~~<<-- Persia*, India, China
^^^
| |
Africa
(also yes, its a map of the roman empire, that is important later and baaah you get the idea)
So, Greece. We adore it right? The founder of democracy, of philosophy, of the finest minds and of higher ideals. For a large part it was that. But nothings perfect, right? Anyway "Greece" is not the country you think it is, nor it as like... Troy (2001) presents it, really. "Greece" is a set of City States. The closest thing we have to it today is... hrm. Okay, I am not actually sure we have anything *like* it today, but that might be because I pay as much attention to modern politics as dead people do to their graves which is to say, yeah I might be living in it, but pretty sure there is *no* processing going on. All these states are separate, functioning on their own systems. The two strongest countries of the States were Athens and Sparta.
(yeeeey, I like maps :D~)
Athens and Sparta were as different as different could be. Athens prided itself on its arts and culture, Sparta prided itself on war and defense.
("Ashes to ashes, dust to dust")
(That's Socrates, mutherfuckers. Read his shit. At the foot of the pantheon, he'll beat you to death. With the sheer force of his brain.)
(Also yes, I find him to be the highlight of Athenian/Greek culture and the highlight of this movie :D)
But since we are dealing with women here, I'll limit it to that.
Taken from this website:
"...Athenian women can be classified into three general classes. The lowest class was the slave women, who carried out more of the menial domestic chores, and helped to raise the children of the wife. Male slaves held the task of working in the trade arts (pottery making, glass working, wood working, etc) or to educate the sons of a house. The second class was that of the Athenian citizen woman. The third class was known as the Hetaerae. The hetaerae unlike the slaves and the citizens, were much akin to the Geisha's of China. Hetaerae women were given an education in reading, writing, and music, and were allowed into the Agora and other structures which were off limits to citizen and slave women. Most sources about the Hetaerae indicate however, that their standing was at best at the level of prostitutes, and the level of power they attained was only slightly significant."
There general view of women (in Athens) is summarised by Menander, a play-write:
"Teaching a woman to read and write? What a terrible thing to do! Like feeding a vile snake on more poison."
I sincerely wish I was making half this shit up, I really do.
("SPAAAAAAARTAAAAAA."
He is also wearing *way* to much clothing for a spartan going into battle, srsly. Also, most of the shit about Leonidas is true. Especially the thrown out into the woods at like... 9, thing.)
Spartan women, on the other hand:
Women's roles in Sparta were not limited to marriage and procreation. Spartan women had many rights that other Greek women did not have. Namely, they could own and control their own property. They could also take another husband if their first had been away at war for too long. A woman was expected in times of war to overtake her husband's property, and to guard it against invaders and revolts until her husband returned; hence many Spartan women are pictured as warriors.
Further was the respect they were given:
"A girl's education was equally as brutal as the men's; many athletic events such as javelin, discus, foot races, and staged battles were also for both sexes. In many such events, Spartan women would run naked in the presence of their male counterparts and were respected for their athletic feats."
I probably need to point out about a lot about Spartan society, as its role for men and women were very similar. (Those of you who have seen 300 will know this bit.) When a child was born in Sparta, they were first bathed in wine (? I am not sure what that was supposed to do, but they did it) if it survived this, then it was taken to a Priest (called "Gerousia"). The Gerousia would inspect the child, if he found it to be small/deformed/lacking in anyway, the child was thrown off the cliff, to either die there, or be eaten by wolves. Or both. This is the same for both male and female. The difference for girls and boys is when the child turns seven. Boys join the Agoge and Girls we are lead to be joined a form of it, where they were trained just as hard..., differently. The understanding that healthier women gave healthier children. At 18 all girls of the "sisterhood" took a fitness test, if they passed, they became a true Spartan woman with full rights, if they did not, they became of the middle-class and were the more 'run of the mill' type (which was heavily looked down upon), if they did, they were allowed to own property, were assigned a husband* as well as actually allowed out of the house and walk around naked on certain festival days. In the end was just baby-making-scheme, but apparently the men of Sparta had enough to sense to realize they weak women make sickly children.
Spartan women were sort of fucking crazy and brainwashed. I mean really. Apart from the willingly allowing their children to be thrown off cliffs. The best example I can give is from Plutarchs Sayings of Spartan Women. There are hundred accounts of Spartan women when their sons has run from battle, terrified, back to their homes, their mothers killing their sons, because they were of Sparta. And no they didn't value women as high as they did their sons, but they understood that you need women to be strong as to assist when necessary**.
My personal favorite:
Another [woman], when her sons had run away from battle and come to her, said, "Where have you come now in your cowardly flight, vile varlets? Do you intend to slink in here whence you came forth?" And with these words she pulled up her garment and showed them.
Spartan women: Don't fuck with them. They will do twice as worse.
"What happened Lily!" you cry, "What happened to Sparta and its great women, where does it go from here?"
Well to begin with Athens and Sparta were... the best of friends. They faced off against Persia***, were the victor twice over. Theeeen Athens got greedy. They say they "stumbled" into it, but they use this word "Proschema" which means "professed intention", and the rest my friends, is a Senior Highschool assignment. I suggest reading here, if you really want to know the details. But in short Athens formed a "alliance", took advantage of the "alliance" and created the Athenian Empire from other peoples weakness. This should all start sound very familiar right about now, god knows its happened enough. At first everyone was okay with it, but then when peace finally rained and countries tried to pull out, Athens beat them to a pulp. Sparta didn't care. Then Athens started building walls around themselves, Sparta did not like that, then Sparta refused their help at one point due to internal problems (a slave revolt) -- they fell out and massive war erupted. The Spartan moral was broken when a group of soldiers surrendered. And they never really got back up again, apparently. Admittedly they were still held on to something, because they were still pagan until the 10th Century AD.
So the Athenian way of life prevailed, for whatever end.
And this is the end of Part 1.
Part 2 will be on Greece and its influence on Rome. If you're lucky.
*The wedding night constituted: Being 'abducted', taken to a chamber where the 'bridesmaid' would shave the hair of the girl off dress her in a Spartan males clothes, and then leave her to wait. After that, the Spartan would slip away from the Barracks, come to the chamber, take off the belt, sleep with her, then leave again to go to the barracks. Marriage was more like a brief arrangement then what we think of it. This is probably because a Spartan man did not leave the army till they were 60.
** The sign that there is equality (or at least more then Athens ever gave its own women), because only warriors that died great deaths and women who died in childbirth, got marked graves.
*** Persia needs its own map so you can see what I mean when I say "Persia".
I would also like to note here, that this isn't exact as it could be. I am trying to give you a over view not a blow by blow account of history. Also because this is Ancient (as good a jobs as the greeks did do of writing everything down) some is lost. Like exactly what went on the Spartan girls education. I've tried to reference where possible. I am biased, but its hard not to be when you understand fully what I get to at the end.
Stating now that I will only do this until the Medieval Period, because that is a) where my history runs out and b) hopefully people know where it goes from there.
The suppression comes from many sources, before America or Australia ever mattered as a chunk of land. I disputed a lot with my self, traced cultures back and came upon a couple. But I figured there is one that I think had a larger share in it then all the others. So where to we start this? Ancient Greece, children, Ancient Greece is where we must begin this long story, but again you can argue it has several starting point, but this, I feel, is the one to begin with. Not the earliest of civilizations as they go, but every story has to start somewhere. So get your time machine hats on kiddies and take my hand, Aunty Lily is going to take you into the grizzly past that most of us don't remember, or consider, but seem to be fighting anyway. And perhaps we will begin to actually understand were the suppression comes from.
Anyway because I find pictures help associate people with things, there will be many, I apologies for any bandwidth killage now.
To start with, please refer to this map (yes this is what we call the "Ancient" World... Persia is there to, and yes we will talk about it sorta) so you know where people are and cities and everything else:
Britain, Rome, Greece -->>~~<<-- Persia*, India, China
^^^
| |
Africa
(also yes, its a map of the roman empire, that is important later and baaah you get the idea)
So, Greece. We adore it right? The founder of democracy, of philosophy, of the finest minds and of higher ideals. For a large part it was that. But nothings perfect, right? Anyway "Greece" is not the country you think it is, nor it as like... Troy (2001) presents it, really. "Greece" is a set of City States. The closest thing we have to it today is... hrm. Okay, I am not actually sure we have anything *like* it today, but that might be because I pay as much attention to modern politics as dead people do to their graves which is to say, yeah I might be living in it, but pretty sure there is *no* processing going on. All these states are separate, functioning on their own systems. The two strongest countries of the States were Athens and Sparta.
(yeeeey, I like maps :D~)
Athens and Sparta were as different as different could be. Athens prided itself on its arts and culture, Sparta prided itself on war and defense.
("Ashes to ashes, dust to dust")
(That's Socrates, mutherfuckers. Read his shit. At the foot of the pantheon, he'll beat you to death. With the sheer force of his brain.)
(Also yes, I find him to be the highlight of Athenian/Greek culture and the highlight of this movie :D)
But since we are dealing with women here, I'll limit it to that.
Taken from this website:
"...Athenian women can be classified into three general classes. The lowest class was the slave women, who carried out more of the menial domestic chores, and helped to raise the children of the wife. Male slaves held the task of working in the trade arts (pottery making, glass working, wood working, etc) or to educate the sons of a house. The second class was that of the Athenian citizen woman. The third class was known as the Hetaerae. The hetaerae unlike the slaves and the citizens, were much akin to the Geisha's of China. Hetaerae women were given an education in reading, writing, and music, and were allowed into the Agora and other structures which were off limits to citizen and slave women. Most sources about the Hetaerae indicate however, that their standing was at best at the level of prostitutes, and the level of power they attained was only slightly significant."
There general view of women (in Athens) is summarised by Menander, a play-write:
"Teaching a woman to read and write? What a terrible thing to do! Like feeding a vile snake on more poison."
I sincerely wish I was making half this shit up, I really do.
("SPAAAAAAARTAAAAAA."
He is also wearing *way* to much clothing for a spartan going into battle, srsly. Also, most of the shit about Leonidas is true. Especially the thrown out into the woods at like... 9, thing.)
Spartan women, on the other hand:
Women's roles in Sparta were not limited to marriage and procreation. Spartan women had many rights that other Greek women did not have. Namely, they could own and control their own property. They could also take another husband if their first had been away at war for too long. A woman was expected in times of war to overtake her husband's property, and to guard it against invaders and revolts until her husband returned; hence many Spartan women are pictured as warriors.
Further was the respect they were given:
"A girl's education was equally as brutal as the men's; many athletic events such as javelin, discus, foot races, and staged battles were also for both sexes. In many such events, Spartan women would run naked in the presence of their male counterparts and were respected for their athletic feats."
I probably need to point out about a lot about Spartan society, as its role for men and women were very similar. (Those of you who have seen 300 will know this bit.) When a child was born in Sparta, they were first bathed in wine (? I am not sure what that was supposed to do, but they did it) if it survived this, then it was taken to a Priest (called "Gerousia"). The Gerousia would inspect the child, if he found it to be small/deformed/lacking in anyway, the child was thrown off the cliff, to either die there, or be eaten by wolves. Or both. This is the same for both male and female. The difference for girls and boys is when the child turns seven. Boys join the Agoge and Girls we are lead to be joined a form of it, where they were trained just as hard..., differently. The understanding that healthier women gave healthier children. At 18 all girls of the "sisterhood" took a fitness test, if they passed, they became a true Spartan woman with full rights, if they did not, they became of the middle-class and were the more 'run of the mill' type (which was heavily looked down upon), if they did, they were allowed to own property, were assigned a husband* as well as actually allowed out of the house and walk around naked on certain festival days. In the end was just baby-making-scheme, but apparently the men of Sparta had enough to sense to realize they weak women make sickly children.
Spartan women were sort of fucking crazy and brainwashed. I mean really. Apart from the willingly allowing their children to be thrown off cliffs. The best example I can give is from Plutarchs Sayings of Spartan Women. There are hundred accounts of Spartan women when their sons has run from battle, terrified, back to their homes, their mothers killing their sons, because they were of Sparta. And no they didn't value women as high as they did their sons, but they understood that you need women to be strong as to assist when necessary**.
My personal favorite:
Another [woman], when her sons had run away from battle and come to her, said, "Where have you come now in your cowardly flight, vile varlets? Do you intend to slink in here whence you came forth?" And with these words she pulled up her garment and showed them.
Spartan women: Don't fuck with them. They will do twice as worse.
"What happened Lily!" you cry, "What happened to Sparta and its great women, where does it go from here?"
Well to begin with Athens and Sparta were... the best of friends. They faced off against Persia***, were the victor twice over. Theeeen Athens got greedy. They say they "stumbled" into it, but they use this word "Proschema" which means "professed intention", and the rest my friends, is a Senior Highschool assignment. I suggest reading here, if you really want to know the details. But in short Athens formed a "alliance", took advantage of the "alliance" and created the Athenian Empire from other peoples weakness. This should all start sound very familiar right about now, god knows its happened enough. At first everyone was okay with it, but then when peace finally rained and countries tried to pull out, Athens beat them to a pulp. Sparta didn't care. Then Athens started building walls around themselves, Sparta did not like that, then Sparta refused their help at one point due to internal problems (a slave revolt) -- they fell out and massive war erupted. The Spartan moral was broken when a group of soldiers surrendered. And they never really got back up again, apparently. Admittedly they were still held on to something, because they were still pagan until the 10th Century AD.
So the Athenian way of life prevailed, for whatever end.
And this is the end of Part 1.
Part 2 will be on Greece and its influence on Rome. If you're lucky.
*The wedding night constituted: Being 'abducted', taken to a chamber where the 'bridesmaid' would shave the hair of the girl off dress her in a Spartan males clothes, and then leave her to wait. After that, the Spartan would slip away from the Barracks, come to the chamber, take off the belt, sleep with her, then leave again to go to the barracks. Marriage was more like a brief arrangement then what we think of it. This is probably because a Spartan man did not leave the army till they were 60.
** The sign that there is equality (or at least more then Athens ever gave its own women), because only warriors that died great deaths and women who died in childbirth, got marked graves.
*** Persia needs its own map so you can see what I mean when I say "Persia".
I would also like to note here, that this isn't exact as it could be. I am trying to give you a over view not a blow by blow account of history. Also because this is Ancient (as good a jobs as the greeks did do of writing everything down) some is lost. Like exactly what went on the Spartan girls education. I've tried to reference where possible. I am biased, but its hard not to be when you understand fully what I get to at the end.