Religious people are flawed... An example being most people drink and get drink (even religous people I'm sure), yet the Bible says, in Ephesians 5:18: "Don't be drunk with wine, because that will ruin your life. Instead, let the Holy Spirit fill and control you
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People seem to think that, because it is a "religious belief" or a "religious viewpoint" that it is automatically worth respect and/or listening time out of all proportion of the normal way of deciding things.
Because people believe stuff because a) a historical figure said so b) a book said so (Mein Kampf, anyone?) or c) because the voices in our heads/the heads of our leaders said so - and this makes their views somehow of major importance, and what's more handled with kid gloves?
Any belief that stands up to rigourous discussion and thought gets near-universal respect. The rights of humans, the ideal of charity, the right to freedom of conscience. If some thought needs special measures to keep it propped up, doesn't that say somethign rather damning about the strength of intellect of those who wilfully believe that thought?
Any belief that stands up to rigourous discussion and thought gets near-universal respect. The rights of humans, the ideal of charity, the right to freedom of conscience. If some thought needs special measures to keep it propped up, doesn't that say somethign rather damning about the strength of intellect of those who wilfully believe that thought?
Yikes! First of all I'd say there are plenty of beliefs that do seem to stand up to rigorous discussion and thought which are completely bonkers, such the concept of a man and woman (for example, assuming everyone is either male or female.) I'd go as far as to include "the ideal of charity" in this. As long as charities exist the government can relinquish some responsibility. This can be a good thing, but what happens to vital medical charities when the economy slumps? Finally, and probably most importantly, the ideas of equality and acceptance do need to be propped up. They're unnatural ideas (in the same way as good hygeine is unnatural, or eating healthily) so they must be taught
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Yes, but people discuss them! Religion is surrounded by this little bubble of adamantine that says "thou shalt not even dare suggest this is wrong, or else
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For what it's worth, I take most "modern" religions (that includes Christianity) with a pinch of salt, simple because they do have (and I believe are) relations to Paganism.
It does seem to be the more modern religions making things akward with government and not respecting others choices.
No offence to religions intended, but they need to learn the same lesson most things need to learn: Coexist without forcing your choices/rights/opinions upon others. I don't know of any religion that does that currently... Would it be such a hard task?
Yes, but people discuss them! Religion is surrounded by this little bubble of adamantine that says "thou shalt not even dare suggest this is wrong, or else."
True to an extent, but at the same time the people who actually know their religious beliefs inside out generally have discussed their ideas a lot and many of them even go through periods of doubt and emotional turmoil over their faith. A religious belief isn't simply "I believe that..." If you want to get a debate going then go to a Christian Union with a reasonably large number of people and ask what the point of being Christian is. They'll be debating about it for hours, with all sorts of answers that include faith, conversion, good deeds, repentence etc, some of which will be mutually exclusive. There's plenty of discussion about religion (ack, read Christianity), even though it's not discussed as much as other issues.
It is not that fact that things like charity are artificial Yes they are. That's my point. We're raised with the idea of charity and are taught to get a
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When you get right down to it, any idea that represents something abstract and intangible (freedom of speech, charity, gender identity, God, faith is completely artificial, in the sense that they are entirely human constructs
No, there are some very natural experiences which are abstract or intangible. Love is natural, anger is natural, wanting be warm at night is natural. Using a toilet isn't natural and is something that has to be taught. Get your average yob drunk, feed him lots of water and give him a tree and you'll see what his natural response is then!
and not part of the physical world. And yet, we spend almost all of time working within the constraints of those human constructs (money, degrees, relationships, reputation...) - that doesn't make them any less real. Yeah, that lot's real, but it also has to be compatible enough with how we're wired up in our heads. For example, we can't work 14 hours solid 3 days a week, even if that would make everyone more efficient, benefit society and
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~ Tommy
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People seem to think that, because it is a "religious belief" or a "religious viewpoint" that it is automatically worth respect and/or listening time out of all proportion of the normal way of deciding things.
Because people believe stuff because a) a historical figure said so b) a book said so (Mein Kampf, anyone?) or c) because the voices in our heads/the heads of our leaders said so - and this makes their views somehow of major importance, and what's more handled with kid gloves?
Any belief that stands up to rigourous discussion and thought gets near-universal respect. The rights of humans, the ideal of charity, the right to freedom of conscience. If some thought needs special measures to keep it propped up, doesn't that say somethign rather damning about the strength of intellect of those who wilfully believe that thought?
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Yikes! First of all I'd say there are plenty of beliefs that do seem to stand up to rigorous discussion and thought which are completely bonkers, such the concept of a man and woman (for example, assuming everyone is either male or female.) I'd go as far as to include "the ideal of charity" in this. As long as charities exist the government can relinquish some responsibility. This can be a good thing, but what happens to vital medical charities when the economy slumps? Finally, and probably most importantly, the ideas of equality and acceptance do need to be propped up. They're unnatural ideas (in the same way as good hygeine is unnatural, or eating healthily) so they must be taught ( ... )
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It does seem to be the more modern religions making things akward with government and not respecting others choices.
No offence to religions intended, but they need to learn the same lesson most things need to learn: Coexist without forcing your choices/rights/opinions upon others. I don't know of any religion that does that currently... Would it be such a hard task?
~ Tommy
P.S. Sorry if that was way off :)
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True to an extent, but at the same time the people who actually know their religious beliefs inside out generally have discussed their ideas a lot and many of them even go through periods of doubt and emotional turmoil over their faith. A religious belief isn't simply "I believe that..." If you want to get a debate going then go to a Christian Union with a reasonably large number of people and ask what the point of being Christian is. They'll be debating about it for hours, with all sorts of answers that include faith, conversion, good deeds, repentence etc, some of which will be mutually exclusive. There's plenty of discussion about religion (ack, read Christianity), even though it's not discussed as much as other issues.
It is not that fact that things like charity are artificial
Yes they are. That's my point. We're raised with the idea of charity and are taught to get a ( ... )
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(Snip nice anthropology bit!)
When you get right down to it, any idea that represents something abstract and intangible (freedom of speech, charity, gender identity, God, faith is completely artificial, in the sense that they are entirely human constructs
No, there are some very natural experiences which are abstract or intangible. Love is natural, anger is natural, wanting be warm at night is natural. Using a toilet isn't natural and is something that has to be taught. Get your average yob drunk, feed him lots of water and give him a tree and you'll see what his natural response is then!
and not part of the physical world. And yet, we spend almost all of time working within the constraints of those human constructs (money, degrees, relationships, reputation...) - that doesn't make them any less real.
Yeah, that lot's real, but it also has to be compatible enough with how we're wired up in our heads. For example, we can't work 14 hours solid 3 days a week, even if that would make everyone more efficient, benefit society and ( ... )
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People normally say that something is "unnatural" if it is a bad thing, it has negative implications.
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Religion also stalls progress and science and other such stuff, it's just really rubbish to be honest with you.
Some anti-islam/anti-immigration people argue that this country is a christian country etc, this is not actually true. The state is secular in nature.
Anyway, what the fuck am I on about? I have gone off at a bit of a tangent really! ah calculus...
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