Yaaaaa I kept hoping against hope that she wouldn't do it, when she was dismissing her maids I was like STAY WITH HER you idiots don't let her do it!! At least until Gou Jian comes back! But ;__;
Bo Pi
I took it to mean Gou Jian gave him the option of killing himself, since it's the only course for him having failed to negotiate a truce. Though why only the head I'm not sure.
Fan Li
You're as hard on the poor boy as Uncle Ming is! I thought Jia Yiping turned in quite a nuanced performance, once he got past the initial smug-and-irritating. But Fan Li's part did kind of fade into irrelevance when the Xi Shi sub-plot came into prominence. I suppose I like him because he's not Zhuge Liang omni-brilliant. He's smart, good at what he does when someone asks him to do it, but has no ambition. A bit lacking in heart, as paleaswater said a couple dozen threads ago. It's a nice change from the expected.
But this series is Not Kind to people who like happy endings. I felt lousy for a couple of days after finishing it. =/
See, I was expecting Zhuge Liang omni-brilliant, and kept wondering when it'd turn up. I think of all of them he was the one worst served by the subtitles, because all the scenes with Wen Zhong just... didn't register. Couldn't figure out for the life of me what was going on. And, well, lacking in heart is a bad thing for the romantic hero of the piece to be. He at least looks concerned enough over gou Jian, even if he doesn't over Xi Shi.
(Parenthetically I didn't realize the young woman smiling in the closing titles was Ya Yu. I thought it might be made-over Xi Shi (no, I have no eye for the details of adult faces) finally earning her reputation as an empire-shaking beauty. Damn, that's who should have played Xi Shi, for sure.)
I felt lousy for a couple of days after finishing it
Then this is nothing unusual, I suppose. (deep sigh)
Oh, it's terrible that his scenes with Wen Zhong didn't come across. These are the ones that establish his character as someone who's uncannily prescient and perceptive, but unlike Wen Zhong always chose the easier way forward.
Well, in an interview Jia Yiping said, they'd just started filming and he'd done a few scenes with Chen Daoming. Then Uncle Ming sent him a message saying something like, I am telling you solemnly, and I will only say this once, but I am very dissatisfied with your performance so far. You are acting using 小聪明 (uhh petty cleverness, unworthy tricks) when you have the potential to really bring out this character. And so Jia Yiping seeks out Guru Chen, they thrash out the character, and presumably Yiping-kun improves.
Yes Fan Li sees the same things as Wen Zhong does, sometimes more, but just doesn't have Wen Zhong's energy/devotion to duty/pig-headedness to see things through. Pity about the subs. =/
(but then who will be our empire-rebuilding beauty?)
Corrective AUs. Anything is possible, even happy endings!
;_; yes yes she did and my heart just plummeted when the messenger came bustling into the palace with the good news.
corrective AUs
Corrective AU and rewatches are definitely necessary.
Sort of disappointed that they didn't got the whole hog and display his eyes on the city wall as requested :p
Drove him insaneFu Chai seemed to be quite composed and dignified during the actual surrender scene shortly after, so unless the editing is screwed again (which is a bit less likely since he does get calmer and acknowledge that he has to beg for preservation of Wu's temples and people etc) I tend to see it as venting before he returns to his senses
( ... )
I thought she'd... I don't want to say, get over it; but, well, find that the destruction of Wu was enough to satisfy her. Maybe I didn't quite believe what she said to Xi Shi (stock party line a dishonoured woman must come out with, mustn't be unconventional with the young, but what a conventional attitude for her to have. You can't die, dammit, your king and country still need you.)
I tend to see it as venting before he returns to his senses.
But he hears voices and mistakes his servant for Gou Jian and has utterly lost it. Surely a bit excessive for venting.
Ah well. 'See him on his way' was what the subtitles said, and I assumed it was meant literally. Mh. Where does Gou Jian get off telling the ambassador of a conquered nation to kill himself, I wonder.
Wikipedia said nothing about someone warning Wen Zhong, and RoTR is vague on the point. Where would I find the whole story?
She had tears in her eyes when she was speaking with Xi Shi. These things never end well >_<
he hears voices and mistakes his servant for Gou Jian and has utterly lost it
Initially I thought he was going to do himself in right there in his fit of madness, but his turnaround was so fast that it sorta threw me. (I have had apaprently delusional patients like that, except without, er, the actual completed homicide, who then became quite functional without any pharmacological intervention - on investigation we decided that they didn't actually have a psychiatric problem i.e. just acting out. But it usually took them a considerably longer period to calm down, so am not sure that Fu Chai is completely out of his mind.)
Where does Gou Jian get off telling the ambassador of a conquered nation to kill himself, I wonder.
Same place he gets the idea to walk in and take over the essentially unguarded capital of a hegemon, I suppose.
This Chinese page (not the wiki but IIRC wiki page also quotes same advice from Fan Li) says that Fan Li told
( ... )
And now one must wonder how much Gou Jian knew or sensed about what she felt, and was he referring to it in their last scene together with its obscure subtitles.
As for Fu Chai- I'm inclined to put this too down to Fifteen Missing Minutes Syndrome.
Mhh- somehow walking into an unguarded city under false pretenses feels to me like tactics, while offing ambassadors is a breach of 礼, but Spring-Autumn probably saw both as the latter. And of course my Japanese instincts say, well Bo Pi was de facto Gou Jian's man so Gou Jian gets to say what happens to him.
高鸟散，良弓藏；狡兔尽，走狗烹
And I thought this period was more direct in its utterances than Tang or Ming? ^_^ So Wen Zhong thought he was the bow, not the dog?
(Have only just now noticed what the cat in your icon is saying. Snerk.)
Comments 28
Yaaaaa I kept hoping against hope that she wouldn't do it, when she was dismissing her maids I was like STAY WITH HER you idiots don't let her do it!! At least until Gou Jian comes back! But ;__;
Bo Pi
I took it to mean Gou Jian gave him the option of killing himself, since it's the only course for him having failed to negotiate a truce. Though why only the head I'm not sure.
Fan Li
You're as hard on the poor boy as Uncle Ming is! I thought Jia Yiping turned in quite a nuanced performance, once he got past the initial smug-and-irritating. But Fan Li's part did kind of fade into irrelevance when the Xi Shi sub-plot came into prominence. I suppose I like him because he's not Zhuge Liang omni-brilliant. He's smart, good at what he does when someone asks him to do it, but has no ambition. A bit lacking in heart, as paleaswater said a couple dozen threads ago. It's a nice change from the expected.
But this series is Not Kind to people who like happy endings. I felt lousy for a couple of days after finishing it. =/
Reply
Ah, so? Referring to what?
See, I was expecting Zhuge Liang omni-brilliant, and kept wondering when it'd turn up. I think of all of them he was the one worst served by the subtitles, because all the scenes with Wen Zhong just... didn't register. Couldn't figure out for the life of me what was going on. And, well, lacking in heart is a bad thing for the romantic hero of the piece to be. He at least looks concerned enough over gou Jian, even if he doesn't over Xi Shi.
(Parenthetically I didn't realize the young woman smiling in the closing titles was Ya Yu. I thought it might be made-over Xi Shi (no, I have no eye for the details of adult faces) finally earning her reputation as an empire-shaking beauty. Damn, that's who should have played Xi Shi, for sure.)
I felt lousy for a couple of days after finishing it
Then this is nothing unusual, I suppose. (deep sigh)
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Reply
Yes Fan Li sees the same things as Wen Zhong does, sometimes more, but just doesn't have Wen Zhong's energy/devotion to duty/pig-headedness to see things through. Pity about the subs. =/
(but then who will be our empire-rebuilding beauty?)
Corrective AUs. Anything is possible, even happy endings!
Reply
She really meant it.
;_; yes yes she did and my heart just plummeted when the messenger came bustling into the palace with the good news.
corrective AUs
Corrective AU and rewatches are definitely necessary.
Sort of disappointed that they didn't got the whole hog and display his eyes on the city wall as requested :p
Drove him insaneFu Chai seemed to be quite composed and dignified during the actual surrender scene shortly after, so unless the editing is screwed again (which is a bit less likely since he does get calmer and acknowledge that he has to beg for preservation of Wu's temples and people etc) I tend to see it as venting before he returns to his senses ( ... )
Reply
I tend to see it as venting before he returns to his senses.
But he hears voices and mistakes his servant for Gou Jian and has utterly lost it. Surely a bit excessive for venting.
Ah well. 'See him on his way' was what the subtitles said, and I assumed it was meant literally. Mh. Where does Gou Jian get off telling the ambassador of a conquered nation to kill himself, I wonder.
Wikipedia said nothing about someone warning Wen Zhong, and RoTR is vague on the point. Where would I find the whole story?
Reply
he hears voices and mistakes his servant for Gou Jian and has utterly lost it
Initially I thought he was going to do himself in right there in his fit of madness, but his turnaround was so fast that it sorta threw me. (I have had apaprently delusional patients like that, except without, er, the actual completed homicide, who then became quite functional without any pharmacological intervention - on investigation we decided that they didn't actually have a psychiatric problem i.e. just acting out. But it usually took them a considerably longer period to calm down, so am not sure that Fu Chai is completely out of his mind.)
Where does Gou Jian get off telling the ambassador of a conquered nation to kill himself, I wonder.
Same place he gets the idea to walk in and take over the essentially unguarded capital of a hegemon, I suppose.
This Chinese page (not the wiki but IIRC wiki page also quotes same advice from Fan Li) says that Fan Li told ( ... )
Reply
As for Fu Chai- I'm inclined to put this too down to Fifteen Missing Minutes Syndrome.
Mhh- somehow walking into an unguarded city under false pretenses feels to me like tactics, while offing ambassadors is a breach of 礼, but Spring-Autumn probably saw both as the latter. And of course my Japanese instincts say, well Bo Pi was de facto Gou Jian's man so Gou Jian gets to say what happens to him.
高鸟散，良弓藏；狡兔尽，走狗烹
And I thought this period was more direct in its utterances than Tang or Ming? ^_^ So Wen Zhong thought he was the bow, not the dog?
(Have only just now noticed what the cat in your icon is saying. Snerk.)
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