On Canon Not My Own

[fingeroflife]

On The Power of the Elements

or

An Attempt To Make Sense of Metaphysics in KKM

or

WTF Are You Doing, You Tremendous Geek

Comments

[jmtorres]

Huh, interesting. lady_ganesh linked me here.

I had gotten the impression that the ability to do magic outside of Shin Makoku was related to the presence of demon stones concentrated in the earth there and the oppositional force of esoteric stones (can't recall what they're called in fansub) in the earth elsewhere.

Although it's fascinating that, say, Adalbert can learn to use the esoteric stones with no apparent ill effects, but Wolfram's just knocked flat by them. I have this theory about the entire human-shaped demon race being a lot more mixed blood than any of them let on--that there are demon races that don't look human, like the boneys, that are a lot more pure-blooded, but that the race we see the most of has historically had interbreeding with humans on and off for thousands of years. And that there's a certain trait in the human genome that allows tolerance/manipulation of the esoteric stones, and some demons have it, and some don't--Adalbert has it, and so does Yuri (unsurprisingly, really). And there's a trait in the demon genome that allows for manipulation of the demon stones/drawing on them for power, and most of our mazoku characters have that one--though not all, Conrad and Josak either didn't inherit it or were told their whole lives that half-breeds can't do magic so they never tried--because heaven knows Yuri has it.

(Though you can get into the question of whether or not it's genetic heredity or soul heredity, and what's the natural migration pattern of the soul when not stoppered in a bottle and hauled to another world. Really, the soul business complicates stuff an awful lot and makes Yuri a bad example of anything other than Specialness.)

Re: Bob I would actually not be surprised to learn that the Wincott line on Earth took some quantity of demon stones with them and they're inherited marks of office or something.

But the elemental alignment of their powers is a fascinating topic, too. Yuri throws a wrench in there--I'm very reluctant to label Yuri purely a water power. It was his first manifestation, but second was the garbage golem in episode 5; then he breaks up the battle with Stoffel in episode 11 with a tornado, ie the wind; then in episode 14 he calls up the earth, and earth filled with esoteric stones at that mine, to boot. I think it's fairer to say that Shinou is aligned with water, since all of those early crossings between worlds are his doing. Yuri is some sort of... perfect person... perfect being... a fifth element... /quote. And apparently the fifth element is garbage?

OTOH I'm not opposed to shorthanding Yuri to water either, because alignment of powers and boxes is something that pleases me a lot. Gwendal's the key to the earth box, Wolfram's the key to the fire box, Yuri's the key to the water box, and the key to the wind box is... Conrad.

Which makes me really wonder about Conrad.

I realize I'm poking at a 2 yr old entry and this may not be your bag anymore, but if you're still interested in discussing it, I'd love work out some kind of cohesive theory that sorts out the importance of making a pact with the elements versus heredity and where this soul business comes into it and if maybe the demon stones are physically trapped elementals or something.

[ysadrel]

<-- fingeroflife on his personal account; this is a RP journal. XD Metaphysics are always my thing, but it's been a long, long time since I watched KKM, so I might not be as up on the source as I'd like.

I remember that human magic is tied to the use of esoteric stones, but I actually don't remember hearing that demon magic was tied to similar stones; I could well have missed it, but I thought that houjutsu was a completely different thing. We always see human casters using esoteric stones (I forget what my fansub called them, so I'll use that term), but we never see mazoku casters using any kind of material focus (like a stone) at all. It might just be that the demon stones have to be locally present to enable mazoku magic, though...I still have the impression that a formal pact is involved (see: possessed!Wolfram and Shori, also Yuuri at the lake where they discovered the water box). Probably the answer is somewhere in between, especially since you've probably watched more recently than me. And heredity is definitely involved SOMEWHERE, I'm just not sure where...

Re: soul heredity: yeah, it's pretty damn weird, and frankly I'm not sure what to make of the half-blood/full-blood question. It resolves fairly neatly if you assume that anyone with mazoku blood has some potential to manifest majutsu (see above re: innate power) but may or may not be able to use it without a pact, and that houjutsu resistance is a function of having or not having a pact rather than . Conrad and Yozak can't, Shori can, Yuuri we don't know (but I'm thinking that he could have, if he got stressed enough). How elemental power works with bloodline, I frankly have no clue, since Cheri seems to have had children manifesting several different elements. It's mysterious.

Re: Adelbert and his tolerance to esoteric stones: yeah, that is interesting. In the above theoretical framework, I'd propose that elementals are allergic to esoteric stones, and if you've pacted with an elemental you get the drawbacks of that allergy when you're exposed. (Possibly because the elemental withdraws its power to protect itself, possibly because the pact transfers aspects of the allergy.) Of course, if Adelbert has a pact, that theory goes out the window, and I can't remember whether he does or not. Fail, me. (I do remember him using magic so that Yuuri could fast-learn the local languate, but that doesn't mean he uses pact majutsu; it could be innate majutsu or houjutsu, and since we never see that spell used again to my memory, we may never know.)

Re: Yuuri's elemental alignment: isn't it explicitly stated that Yuuri made a pact with water? It was the little girl who offered him a drink, and later he's told "oh, yeah, that's why you can use majutsu, drinking that water made a pact between you and an elemental power." (Near the lake where they found Mirror at the Bottom of the Sea, as I remember.) As for the other stuff he does, I'm willing to attribute that to overwhelming power (and note that he never does anything with fire, which is water's opposed element). That's not really a satisfying solution, though; maybe he does have multiple affinities, though that would sort of ruin the opposites-attract sort of elemental meta-theme the series has going.

I had thought the box key thing was because of direct lineal descent, myself (since we got all those flashbacks with Shinou's companions bearing suspicious resemblances to Yuuri's current adventuring party), but I could very well be wrong about that.

Anyway, I love talking metaphysics on any canon, so I'm glad you commented. XD