Here goes the whole "Dad" thing
Maynard George Webb, Jr. C.O.O. eBay
This is a little backdated information on how my father has treated me and how i have dealt with the situation. Everything that i am writing here dates back almost to when my father decided to cut me off. Now, it is on record for everyone to see.
First attempt at asking my father for forgiveness.
Dad, i know you don't want to help me out any more, but i am begging you for a loan... I have to give my roommate rent today or tomorrow, but i only have 400 in my account (my bill is almost 600). dollars... the ONLY reason i am asking you is because in 12 days, i am getting a 2500 bonus from my job... I can't wait that long to pay my rent, because my roommate can't afford it... I got myself into this mess, and i know it, but i could get myself out if i could get a loan that i would pay back in 12
>days.. please help... I've exhausted all of my other options, and i don't think my roommate should be punished for my blunder Mitch
Father's response-
Sorry, Mitch - the answer is no from my side.
My response-
understand, and i was just gonna tell you that everything is ok, i kinda freaked out, but i figured some stuff out, and i'm alright now... and i
did it all on my own too... How is/was europe?
Mitch
Father's Response-
Glad you figured some stuff out.
>
>I'm a tad exhausted with jet lag - it's 2:10 a.m. in Italy and I'm doing
>e-Mails :-) - hopefully will get back to sleep. We left New Orleans on
>Sunday at 6 a.m. and landed in Madrid at midnight Sunday. Flew from Madrid
>to Milan after a day's work and now are at international ops review through
>Thursday. Long days of meetings then long dinners (which is the European
>fashion). Looking forward to being hom soon.
>
>Love, Dad.
My response-
That is both so cool and it sucks at the same time...
Dad, i want to say thank you for giving me the experience i am having right
now. You were right about everything. I'm living in a place that is too
much for me right now, and the last two years, i've wasted an education that
i could easily have gotten an A. Right now, i realize that i need to be 21.
I need to be in college, getting the degree that i can earn. I need to
get out of this apartment because i could live in a place where i pay 200 a
month and be happy. I need to have a normal college job like being a
waiter. The car business is a simple business and one that i could take
control of by the time i was 35, but it's not what i want. I could make
almost as much money as you do at your age, but it's not what i want. I
want to go back to school... i want to be a straight A student. I want your
help again. Please dad, i am begging you. I don't even want all of the
money that you were going to give to me. The only thing i want from you is
to pay my rent, and pay for books. I fucked up (excuse my french) and i
know i did. But i see now what i need to do. I need to go back to school
and get a business degree. I know what the real world is like, and i can
handle it, i just want to be a student right now. I don't want to be
"stuck" in the car business for the rest of my life. What has caused me to
feel this way is a situation that has arisen with my managers. When i
started, they promised a flat pay of 2500 for the first month, no matter how
you did. When bonus time came around for the month of june, i did not get
the money in my account. that's when i first freaked out and e-mailed you
about the money. I talked to my roommate and he was cool with getting the
money a week late. So the next week was the week that my manager promised
we would get the bonus money. Friday comes around, and he holds a meeting
for us, and tells us it will be one more week, and i had to borrow 450 from
my mom to pay my roommate cuz i promised him the money would be there next
week. Now, i check with my manager on monday about the situation, and he
tells me that it will be next week. So basically i can't pay my mom back
until next week. I HATE being in debt to people, and even worse, i hate not
keeping my word. I'm fine on food, and i have money to survive and pay my
car insurance, car bill, and cell phone bill, but i can't afford to pay my
own mother back. I don't want to be in a business that i can't trust to pay
me what they promised. I know what the real world is like, and i know what
i need to do to straighten my act out. I am currently looking for someone
to take over my payments here, and move into this apartment. I don't want
to live here. I don't want to live in a place where there is added stress
on whether or not i can make the rent. Please dad, don't say no. I need to
be back in school, i need to get the grades i can get, and right now, more
than anything, I need help to do it.
If anything, thanx for reading this...
I love you,
Mitch
Father's Response
Mitch, thanks for filling me in on what's happening. I can see from your
messages that the beginnings of understanding are settling in, but also that
several big pieces of understanding are still not there yet. The first is that
YOU are accountable and in control of your destiny, no one else is. If you
want to go back to school, that's cool, you should figure out how to do it. I
happen to believe that a college degree is a very good thing. The second is
that I hope you learn that you should only spend less than you earn and that
there is nothing but pain in life for folks who don't get this right (have
discussed this with you several times). There are two ways to solve this -
spend less or earn more. I know you are a hard worker and there are a lot of
places that would be glad to have you. The third is that thinking that
something is better or learned doesn't matter, outcomes do...so when you say, I
get it and will get A's - that is great that your desire is there, but what
really matters is that you do it.
I'm sorry you are in debt to your Mother. I also want to remind you that you
still owe me $800 from the car that we loaned you the money for last year.
(Seems like you hate being in debt to everyone but me :-)).
Anyway, if you want to get back to school full time, figure out how to do it and
work on the side for your needs not covered by your scholarships or government
funding. I hate that you now have a bigger burden (your new car) to take care
of, but that just means you'll have to earn some more to take care of that - or
go to school part time (back to the principal of spending has to be below what
you earn).
Please, please get your priorities and your accountability straight. I love you
and know YOU can do it. I know that I could provide money and never feel the
pain, but frankly believe that I would be shirking my duties as a Father growing
an independent son in doing so. You've made all the calls and should deal with
all the repercussions.
Love, Dad
My response
Dad,
I don't understand you, and i guess i never really will. You have seen
nothing that i have done, you don't understand the things i did in
college or in high school. The only outcome you see in my life is my grades,
and every now and then hearing about my financial concerns. I know i owe
you 800 for the car, and believe me i was planning on reimbursing you. The
people that i owe money to other than you NEED that money to be able to
eat and survive. If that is an issue with you, then i will get you your 800
bucks as soon as it comes in my hands. I've made mistakes, we all have
made mistakes. Everyone needs help every now and then, and now, i'm in deep
shit. Was there ever a time when you made a mistake and some one got
you out of it by helping with a little bit of money? I've done nothing
wrong besides grades, and while my grades were dipping, i was busy enriching
the lives of the people around me. Only about 10-20 people a year in the
school of 42,000 did the things i did in school with the RA and the O-Team job.
I've been understanding to you, and i have no choice but to respect your
decision. But do me a favor, don't judge my life solely on the outcome
that YOU can see. Look at my life as a spectrum, look what i've been
through. If you can't see that i'm becoming an independent person, then you can't see what i'm becoming. I'm 21 years old, and i know that's not that old,
but i do have some maturity. I just want to be a normal 21 year old right
now. I work 65-70 hours a week, and i don't have time to call my mom, or even
the woman that i do love. I know you kept helping carrie out when she was
falling down, cuz that was the fatherly thing to do and because she has
bipolar. She messed up, she did drugs, she partied, stole a car, and
all of this bad stuff. But that is also my sister, not me. I don't know what
my future holds, and i'm sure you don't know what yours holds, as there are
no guarantees in life. One thing is for sure, we don't know each other at
all. I don't know your deepest desires in life, and you know nothing of
which i have accomplished. But thanx for the blind advice that you would give
to anyone. I truly hope that you have a change of heart. Hell, if you
want to loan me the money and have me pay you back if i don't get the gpa this
semester, i'd take that in a heartbeat. I don't want to sell cars, and
there is no other job that i could make this kind of money without a
college degree. Another thing, I know you think the car is a burden, but that
was a NECESSITY for me. My other car broke down, and i couldn't take the bus
cuz everytime i'd be 30 minutes late to work. I almost got fired, so i had
no choice. That was a need. But you know everything, and thanx for
judging me on that. Maybe one day you'll see what a good man i've become. And i know i fell below your requirements for being a "good" college student, but
look at my overall gpa. I have a 2.9. That is not a bad gpa at all, and one
that can be easily brought up with hard work. You don't know what i've
been through, not just the last 2 months, but the last couple years. You
don't call me anymore, you don't e-mail me more than one or two lines from
your blackberry, and yet you find time to criticize me and what i have done.
Me not having money at this point isn't only hurting myself, it's hurting
the people around me. My rent this month is 612.00. What sucks the most is
that when i don't have the money to pay for it, which i won't, my roommate is going to have to fork over the money. He doesn't have that kind. My
solution is trying to find a roommate that can take over payments. I
chose to live here when i had a place situated at my fraternity house where
rent was going to be 350 max. Do you want to know the real reason i chose to
live here? Because i wanted to do well in school, and i was expecting
to do well in school. I don't want to live here anymore. I want to move into
a 350 a month place, and i want to get my grades back up in school. I can
do it, i just can't do it on my own. Please be the father you can be, and
help me get out of this mess that i've created.
Mitch
Father's repsonse-
Mitch, we do see things differently, by quite a lot. I don't have any
right to judge you anymore, or vice versa. I know you are a good
person, and I hope that you have a good future.
The fundamental disconnect we have is that as you say in your note
below, I can't do it on my own - I think you can or you should modify
your plans to enable you to. Sorry, my answer is still no.
My response-
Dad,
I guess we had a little falling out. I'm not going to expect to hear
from
you for a while, and you can sure as hell not expect to hear from me for
a
while. Some parent you are. I'm moving back to gainesville because i
HAVE
to do it on my own. Will i go back to school? I don't know if i will
be
able to afford it. It's amazing to me, how the only way that you can be
a
father is with money. My mom knows me, she knows what i'm doing, and
she
knows me as a person, not just as an investment. She knows how hard i
worked here at school. My mom has always been there for me, and even
extended a hand to me so that i could live with her while i was broke.
What
did you do for me besides take away money? You gave me advice. You
didn't
offer any other form of help. My mom is giving up everything to make
sure
i'm ok. We're going to get food stamps because i can't afford to eat.
Is
this a guilt trip? YES. I'M YOUR SON! I shouldn't be in this
position.
It's not like i'm some freak beggar who you don't know, i'm your son.
If
the only way you can show me your love is by giving me money, then what
the
hell are you showing me right now. Your not teaching me any values that
will better my life right now, all your teaching me is hate. Hate is a
strong word. I can't wait to have kids because i know i will be a GOOD
father. I bet kevin and laura hardly get to see you. I know you've
made
lots of money, and you're proud of that, and you should be. But maybe
you
need to get YOUR priorities straight. I think family comes before
anything,
and it's sad that the only people i consider family are Carrie, Mom, and
Myself. So why the hell is my last name webb? What have you done for
me to
deserve that last name? Abandoning me isn't something that deserves me
carrying your last name. No, the woman who has always been there for me
deserves that. Haha, wouldn't it be ironic if i asked YOU for the money
to
do that? haha... No, i'm just going to save up and change my last name
on
my own. So a few years down the road, if you want to find me, trying
looking up Mitch George Gornto...
Father's response-
Sorry you feel that way, Mitchell. Hard to abandon someone when they're
an adult. If your version of love for a child is taking care of their
every need forever than we definitely disagree.
I know you're going through a tough time and I have willingly stopped
helping. It is important to note that I have been helping (apparently
without any thanks or credit) for the last 21 years. As soon as I stop
helping, however, I am a shitty father and don't know what love is. I'm
sorry that you don't value my advice, but that's your prerogative.
Who has the issue? Good luck.
That last entry was on July 20th,
I didn't hear from him again until september 3rd. At which point i received this letter from his attorney/lawyer, William Hornbostel
To: Carrie (my sister), Mitchell (myself), and Susan (my mom)
I have finally decided to get outside assistance to help me in dealing with the situation i find myself in.
I've been doing a lot of soul-searching and i am realizing that i've been taking more than 100% responsibility for lots of things, which lets other people get away with taking less than 100%. I've made a commitment to being 100% responsible for the way my life goes, and forming relationships with people who take 100% responsibility for how their lives go. My intention is to stopy playinng the role of rescuer, which encourages you and others to stay in the role of victim. This has led to a lot of blame and resentment on everybody's part.
To stop this pattern, i'm going to stop taking direct calls or responding to e-mails from you until such time as i can be sure i've broken my addiction to being the hero/rescuer., and i can feel sure that you're not operating out of blame or the feeling that i'm the one who can bail you out, pay your bills, etc. I've set up a person whom you can call with communications you want to get to me. He will relay them to me if he thinks it's appropriate to do so. I'm very excited about the prospects of someday having an equal realtionship with carrie and mitchell, where all of us are taking full responsibility for our lives and nobody is blaming anyone for anything.
If you want to try to reach me, the person you should contact is:
...
Maynard
My "hopeful" response
hey,
I think that it's really good that you are taking some steps to try and improve our relationship. That gives me hope that one day you won't treat me like a business, and i won't treat you like a bank. I've made some mistakes, and i probably could have handle things better. I do want to say that i still feel the same way about everything, and i still am absolutely terrified about my life. What i have to say today is both a hope in rekindling a relationship, and a hope that you will see how dedicated i am about getting back to school.
Before i start on the 2nd part, i want to tell you about what has been going on in my life. The thing weighing most heavily on my mind is chantelle. We had a really hard break up, and it is making my everyday actions tough. Right around the same time i stopped talking to you, i went into a super depression, and she flaked and instead of being there when i needed her most, she decided she needed to be single, with hopes of getting back together when everything was normal again. I realized that i didn't want to be in a relationship where the person i was with didn't want me there for her tough times, and didn't want to be there for my tough times. Every day it gets a little bit easier, but i envisioned a life with just her and only her. I mean, i passed up countless oppurtunities with other women because chantelle was the woman for me. (come on now, i am still a college man ;)).
My everyday life doesn't change very much because i am working like a maynard. Last week, i worked 75 hours in one week. I have two jobs, and let me tell you, working from 8:30 till 4, then going to your next job at 5, closing, getting off at like 12, and then having to be up at 5:30 for your second job the next day is not fun. It's not what i want to do with my life. The toughest part is watching all my bills get harder and harder out of reach. I am trying my hardest, and it's like i get so close, and then it gets further away.
The second part of this letter is to ask not for you to rescue me, but to have you understand why i was asking for help. I asked for help last time just like i asked my mom for help. I asked my mom for money too, and she gave me some. If you were broke, and i was in that position, i would have asked you still. I know that you make more money then the pres, and i don't care about that. I know you don't want to be a rescuer, but we're family, we're suppose to rescue each other sometimes. If you needed some help, or even if you were having a stressful day, and needed someone to talk to about stupid shit to get your mind off things forl ike 2 seconds, i'd want to be there. I'm not going to skirt around the issue either, i really do want you to help me again, even if it's a little bit.
Also, i don't want you to think that i consider myself a victim. I try to take 100% responsibility for my own actions. Everything I have done in my life has been my own free will. when i chose UCF, it was me that wanted to go, no one else pushing me there. When i became an RA, and an O-teamer, it was my perrogative (excuse my spelling i've been out of school for a while). I don't blame you for anything, and i know that this situation could have been prevented. I made a mistake in not focusing on school, and i can't afford to make any more when i get back to UCF. I really do hope you reconsider helping me, and i don't think it's an issue of rescuing me, i think it's more an issue of understanding mine and your positions. As a father, sometimes helping out a son is something one has to do from time to time. As a mother, that still holds tru. We're family. I'm so proud of what you done, and you seeing outside assistance shows that you are genuinely trying to make things better.
When i first came to gainesville, all i felt around me was abandonment. I felt like you were abandoning me, and i knew things were going down hill. Your seeing a therapist gives me a hope that you do really care. I know that you have an idea about what is best for me, and for my life, and you mean well with everything you do. Just know that right now, i do need help, and support (not just monetary). I wish you could see the man that i have become. I wish you could see that when i put my mind to it, nothing can stop me. At work, i bust my ass, and when i'm at my jobs, you can't even tell that i'm working 75 hours a week. I know i can put that same effort into school, and i know that i will. You've helped teach me a very valuable lesson, but i want this lesson to be a memory, and not an ongoing class.
I'm taking responsibility for my actions, but i can't change the past. One thing my fraternity preaches is no regret for past actions, and no remorse for lost oppurtunities. don't regret anything you've done with carrie and i, just try to change it. Carrie and i will do the same. Carrie and I have a different relationship now, and i'm hoping that it will be a very valuable one to me. Hopefully there will be a time when i can say the same about our relationship. I hope you do take time to reconsider helping me again, and i want you to know that I can do it on my own, it just makes my life a little bit tougher.
I love you
Mitch
P.s. I would never change my last name, it's too much paper work ;) for real tho, i want to be associated with you, and that is one of the few associations that i have.
his "lawyer's" two paragraph response-
Hello Mitch,
I spoke with Maynard and Irene (my evil stepmom) and shared your email with them. Maynard truly appreciates your reaching out to him and wants to have a connection with you. It is important to Maynard that the connection between you and he be free from any financial conversations or requests. If you want to start working on connecting with Maynard on that basis, simply let me know and I will get in touch with Maynard.
Very truly yours,
Bill Hornbostel
Up to this point, i have sent one e-mail to the lawyer telling him to go fuck himself and my dad's rules, but i can't remember exactly what i said. I've been gathering the e-mails from reply's from my father. I have also sent little thoughts to my father about our relationship here and there, and my father has not replied, so i have no copies of what i've written to either Bill or Maynard.
Then, my father sent a letter which i received early this nov. (dated nov. 2nd)
Dear Carrie & Mitch,
I want you to be successful adults and i really want to have a close loving relationship with you. I want to make sure we communicate the way successful adults do. For example, i don't have any relationships with successful adults who:
1. Express a lot of blame
2. Act as if i owe them something
3. Ask me for money.
The successful adults i know take full responsibility for their lives, focus on contributing to the world and to others, and put much of their energy into earning their own money.
As i said, i realy want to have a close, loving relationship with you, so i want to reiterate how I'd like to connect with you. As adults, i want to relate grownup-to-grownup with you, with our communication free of any, blame, entitlement or requests for money in it. Just the kind of relationship I have with other adults I love and care about.
Since I'm not very good at communicating adult-to-adult with you, I want the lawyer and therapist to continue to evaluate your communications before passing them along to me, so they can make sure they're not passing anything to me that has blame, entitlement, or requests for money in it.
With love and hope,
(signed)
Maynard
------------------------------------------------------------------
Now here is where i make things interesting. I decided to post my response to this on the internet as to make it visible to everyone in the world.
------------------------------------------------------------------
et me start off by saying,
YOU'RE A FUCKING PUSSY!
as for your three rules, shove them right up your ass.
I don't give a flying fuck about what you find successful. I define success in my life as being happy, and doing what i want to do. If you can't be happy with my life and how i've lived it, there is something wrong with you. How dare you try and judge my success solely on the basis of what you have seen. You've seen my life through a fucking phone line.
Let me break down your three rules as for having a "successful adult relationship"
Rule #1- Express a lot of blame. Sorry dad, but i do take 100% blame for my life and what i have done. I don't blame you for my mistakes. I do blame you for being a shitty father. But i don't think you being a shitty father has destroyed my life, or molded the way that i live my life. It's just a kind of "how not to raise kids" manual.
Rule #2- Act as if i owe them something. Dad, you owed me everything you had as soon as i became your child. At that moment, a father should do everything he can to ensure their son/daughter has a "successful" life. Hell yea i feel like you owe me something. Right now, the only thing i think you truly owe me is the right to hear EVERYTHING i have wanted to say over the last 21/22 years of my life. Please, if you want to get me a present on my birthday, give me a fucking phone call, and listen to everything i have to say. After that, i don't care if you ever try to contact me again. You can have ur shity ass shrink there if u need to.
Rule #3- Ask me for money- I'm sure you're friends with plenty of people that have asked you for money. I.E.- charitable organizations. If i throw a ball, or even pretend to be a sick kid in somolia, would you throw some money my way then? probably not, because it wouldn't reduce your taxes.
Now that you've made all these requests, i just have a couple requests of my own.
1. Grow some balls.
2. Realize success isn't measured by your 80 million dollar worth.
3. get a real shrink, and get some real help.
And something that should be said about all your "succesful" friends. When i lived with you, it seemed like you didn't have any non-work related friends. Maybe you hold too high standards for the human race, and then you can form more "loving" relationships. And if you define success as being boring, having no life, and having a strained family, then i don't want to be successful. Final advice- You need to have more fun... Work isn't everything, those "loving relationships" are what make life great. so take about 100,000 dollars of your fortune and shove them right up your ass...
More to come as time rolls along...
Mitch
P.S. sorry about how long this post is...
This is a little backdated information on how my father has treated me and how i have dealt with the situation. Everything that i am writing here dates back almost to when my father decided to cut me off. Now, it is on record for everyone to see.
First attempt at asking my father for forgiveness.
Dad, i know you don't want to help me out any more, but i am begging you for a loan... I have to give my roommate rent today or tomorrow, but i only have 400 in my account (my bill is almost 600). dollars... the ONLY reason i am asking you is because in 12 days, i am getting a 2500 bonus from my job... I can't wait that long to pay my rent, because my roommate can't afford it... I got myself into this mess, and i know it, but i could get myself out if i could get a loan that i would pay back in 12
>days.. please help... I've exhausted all of my other options, and i don't think my roommate should be punished for my blunder Mitch
Father's response-
Sorry, Mitch - the answer is no from my side.
My response-
understand, and i was just gonna tell you that everything is ok, i kinda freaked out, but i figured some stuff out, and i'm alright now... and i
did it all on my own too... How is/was europe?
Mitch
Father's Response-
Glad you figured some stuff out.
>
>I'm a tad exhausted with jet lag - it's 2:10 a.m. in Italy and I'm doing
>e-Mails :-) - hopefully will get back to sleep. We left New Orleans on
>Sunday at 6 a.m. and landed in Madrid at midnight Sunday. Flew from Madrid
>to Milan after a day's work and now are at international ops review through
>Thursday. Long days of meetings then long dinners (which is the European
>fashion). Looking forward to being hom soon.
>
>Love, Dad.
My response-
That is both so cool and it sucks at the same time...
Dad, i want to say thank you for giving me the experience i am having right
now. You were right about everything. I'm living in a place that is too
much for me right now, and the last two years, i've wasted an education that
i could easily have gotten an A. Right now, i realize that i need to be 21.
I need to be in college, getting the degree that i can earn. I need to
get out of this apartment because i could live in a place where i pay 200 a
month and be happy. I need to have a normal college job like being a
waiter. The car business is a simple business and one that i could take
control of by the time i was 35, but it's not what i want. I could make
almost as much money as you do at your age, but it's not what i want. I
want to go back to school... i want to be a straight A student. I want your
help again. Please dad, i am begging you. I don't even want all of the
money that you were going to give to me. The only thing i want from you is
to pay my rent, and pay for books. I fucked up (excuse my french) and i
know i did. But i see now what i need to do. I need to go back to school
and get a business degree. I know what the real world is like, and i can
handle it, i just want to be a student right now. I don't want to be
"stuck" in the car business for the rest of my life. What has caused me to
feel this way is a situation that has arisen with my managers. When i
started, they promised a flat pay of 2500 for the first month, no matter how
you did. When bonus time came around for the month of june, i did not get
the money in my account. that's when i first freaked out and e-mailed you
about the money. I talked to my roommate and he was cool with getting the
money a week late. So the next week was the week that my manager promised
we would get the bonus money. Friday comes around, and he holds a meeting
for us, and tells us it will be one more week, and i had to borrow 450 from
my mom to pay my roommate cuz i promised him the money would be there next
week. Now, i check with my manager on monday about the situation, and he
tells me that it will be next week. So basically i can't pay my mom back
until next week. I HATE being in debt to people, and even worse, i hate not
keeping my word. I'm fine on food, and i have money to survive and pay my
car insurance, car bill, and cell phone bill, but i can't afford to pay my
own mother back. I don't want to be in a business that i can't trust to pay
me what they promised. I know what the real world is like, and i know what
i need to do to straighten my act out. I am currently looking for someone
to take over my payments here, and move into this apartment. I don't want
to live here. I don't want to live in a place where there is added stress
on whether or not i can make the rent. Please dad, don't say no. I need to
be back in school, i need to get the grades i can get, and right now, more
than anything, I need help to do it.
If anything, thanx for reading this...
I love you,
Mitch
Father's Response
Mitch, thanks for filling me in on what's happening. I can see from your
messages that the beginnings of understanding are settling in, but also that
several big pieces of understanding are still not there yet. The first is that
YOU are accountable and in control of your destiny, no one else is. If you
want to go back to school, that's cool, you should figure out how to do it. I
happen to believe that a college degree is a very good thing. The second is
that I hope you learn that you should only spend less than you earn and that
there is nothing but pain in life for folks who don't get this right (have
discussed this with you several times). There are two ways to solve this -
spend less or earn more. I know you are a hard worker and there are a lot of
places that would be glad to have you. The third is that thinking that
something is better or learned doesn't matter, outcomes do...so when you say, I
get it and will get A's - that is great that your desire is there, but what
really matters is that you do it.
I'm sorry you are in debt to your Mother. I also want to remind you that you
still owe me $800 from the car that we loaned you the money for last year.
(Seems like you hate being in debt to everyone but me :-)).
Anyway, if you want to get back to school full time, figure out how to do it and
work on the side for your needs not covered by your scholarships or government
funding. I hate that you now have a bigger burden (your new car) to take care
of, but that just means you'll have to earn some more to take care of that - or
go to school part time (back to the principal of spending has to be below what
you earn).
Please, please get your priorities and your accountability straight. I love you
and know YOU can do it. I know that I could provide money and never feel the
pain, but frankly believe that I would be shirking my duties as a Father growing
an independent son in doing so. You've made all the calls and should deal with
all the repercussions.
Love, Dad
My response
Dad,
I don't understand you, and i guess i never really will. You have seen
nothing that i have done, you don't understand the things i did in
college or in high school. The only outcome you see in my life is my grades,
and every now and then hearing about my financial concerns. I know i owe
you 800 for the car, and believe me i was planning on reimbursing you. The
people that i owe money to other than you NEED that money to be able to
eat and survive. If that is an issue with you, then i will get you your 800
bucks as soon as it comes in my hands. I've made mistakes, we all have
made mistakes. Everyone needs help every now and then, and now, i'm in deep
shit. Was there ever a time when you made a mistake and some one got
you out of it by helping with a little bit of money? I've done nothing
wrong besides grades, and while my grades were dipping, i was busy enriching
the lives of the people around me. Only about 10-20 people a year in the
school of 42,000 did the things i did in school with the RA and the O-Team job.
I've been understanding to you, and i have no choice but to respect your
decision. But do me a favor, don't judge my life solely on the outcome
that YOU can see. Look at my life as a spectrum, look what i've been
through. If you can't see that i'm becoming an independent person, then you can't see what i'm becoming. I'm 21 years old, and i know that's not that old,
but i do have some maturity. I just want to be a normal 21 year old right
now. I work 65-70 hours a week, and i don't have time to call my mom, or even
the woman that i do love. I know you kept helping carrie out when she was
falling down, cuz that was the fatherly thing to do and because she has
bipolar. She messed up, she did drugs, she partied, stole a car, and
all of this bad stuff. But that is also my sister, not me. I don't know what
my future holds, and i'm sure you don't know what yours holds, as there are
no guarantees in life. One thing is for sure, we don't know each other at
all. I don't know your deepest desires in life, and you know nothing of
which i have accomplished. But thanx for the blind advice that you would give
to anyone. I truly hope that you have a change of heart. Hell, if you
want to loan me the money and have me pay you back if i don't get the gpa this
semester, i'd take that in a heartbeat. I don't want to sell cars, and
there is no other job that i could make this kind of money without a
college degree. Another thing, I know you think the car is a burden, but that
was a NECESSITY for me. My other car broke down, and i couldn't take the bus
cuz everytime i'd be 30 minutes late to work. I almost got fired, so i had
no choice. That was a need. But you know everything, and thanx for
judging me on that. Maybe one day you'll see what a good man i've become. And i know i fell below your requirements for being a "good" college student, but
look at my overall gpa. I have a 2.9. That is not a bad gpa at all, and one
that can be easily brought up with hard work. You don't know what i've
been through, not just the last 2 months, but the last couple years. You
don't call me anymore, you don't e-mail me more than one or two lines from
your blackberry, and yet you find time to criticize me and what i have done.
Me not having money at this point isn't only hurting myself, it's hurting
the people around me. My rent this month is 612.00. What sucks the most is
that when i don't have the money to pay for it, which i won't, my roommate is going to have to fork over the money. He doesn't have that kind. My
solution is trying to find a roommate that can take over payments. I
chose to live here when i had a place situated at my fraternity house where
rent was going to be 350 max. Do you want to know the real reason i chose to
live here? Because i wanted to do well in school, and i was expecting
to do well in school. I don't want to live here anymore. I want to move into
a 350 a month place, and i want to get my grades back up in school. I can
do it, i just can't do it on my own. Please be the father you can be, and
help me get out of this mess that i've created.
Mitch
Father's repsonse-
Mitch, we do see things differently, by quite a lot. I don't have any
right to judge you anymore, or vice versa. I know you are a good
person, and I hope that you have a good future.
The fundamental disconnect we have is that as you say in your note
below, I can't do it on my own - I think you can or you should modify
your plans to enable you to. Sorry, my answer is still no.
My response-
Dad,
I guess we had a little falling out. I'm not going to expect to hear
from
you for a while, and you can sure as hell not expect to hear from me for
a
while. Some parent you are. I'm moving back to gainesville because i
HAVE
to do it on my own. Will i go back to school? I don't know if i will
be
able to afford it. It's amazing to me, how the only way that you can be
a
father is with money. My mom knows me, she knows what i'm doing, and
she
knows me as a person, not just as an investment. She knows how hard i
worked here at school. My mom has always been there for me, and even
extended a hand to me so that i could live with her while i was broke.
What
did you do for me besides take away money? You gave me advice. You
didn't
offer any other form of help. My mom is giving up everything to make
sure
i'm ok. We're going to get food stamps because i can't afford to eat.
Is
this a guilt trip? YES. I'M YOUR SON! I shouldn't be in this
position.
It's not like i'm some freak beggar who you don't know, i'm your son.
If
the only way you can show me your love is by giving me money, then what
the
hell are you showing me right now. Your not teaching me any values that
will better my life right now, all your teaching me is hate. Hate is a
strong word. I can't wait to have kids because i know i will be a GOOD
father. I bet kevin and laura hardly get to see you. I know you've
made
lots of money, and you're proud of that, and you should be. But maybe
you
need to get YOUR priorities straight. I think family comes before
anything,
and it's sad that the only people i consider family are Carrie, Mom, and
Myself. So why the hell is my last name webb? What have you done for
me to
deserve that last name? Abandoning me isn't something that deserves me
carrying your last name. No, the woman who has always been there for me
deserves that. Haha, wouldn't it be ironic if i asked YOU for the money
to
do that? haha... No, i'm just going to save up and change my last name
on
my own. So a few years down the road, if you want to find me, trying
looking up Mitch George Gornto...
Father's response-
Sorry you feel that way, Mitchell. Hard to abandon someone when they're
an adult. If your version of love for a child is taking care of their
every need forever than we definitely disagree.
I know you're going through a tough time and I have willingly stopped
helping. It is important to note that I have been helping (apparently
without any thanks or credit) for the last 21 years. As soon as I stop
helping, however, I am a shitty father and don't know what love is. I'm
sorry that you don't value my advice, but that's your prerogative.
Who has the issue? Good luck.
That last entry was on July 20th,
I didn't hear from him again until september 3rd. At which point i received this letter from his attorney/lawyer, William Hornbostel
To: Carrie (my sister), Mitchell (myself), and Susan (my mom)
I have finally decided to get outside assistance to help me in dealing with the situation i find myself in.
I've been doing a lot of soul-searching and i am realizing that i've been taking more than 100% responsibility for lots of things, which lets other people get away with taking less than 100%. I've made a commitment to being 100% responsible for the way my life goes, and forming relationships with people who take 100% responsibility for how their lives go. My intention is to stopy playinng the role of rescuer, which encourages you and others to stay in the role of victim. This has led to a lot of blame and resentment on everybody's part.
To stop this pattern, i'm going to stop taking direct calls or responding to e-mails from you until such time as i can be sure i've broken my addiction to being the hero/rescuer., and i can feel sure that you're not operating out of blame or the feeling that i'm the one who can bail you out, pay your bills, etc. I've set up a person whom you can call with communications you want to get to me. He will relay them to me if he thinks it's appropriate to do so. I'm very excited about the prospects of someday having an equal realtionship with carrie and mitchell, where all of us are taking full responsibility for our lives and nobody is blaming anyone for anything.
If you want to try to reach me, the person you should contact is:
...
Maynard
My "hopeful" response
hey,
I think that it's really good that you are taking some steps to try and improve our relationship. That gives me hope that one day you won't treat me like a business, and i won't treat you like a bank. I've made some mistakes, and i probably could have handle things better. I do want to say that i still feel the same way about everything, and i still am absolutely terrified about my life. What i have to say today is both a hope in rekindling a relationship, and a hope that you will see how dedicated i am about getting back to school.
Before i start on the 2nd part, i want to tell you about what has been going on in my life. The thing weighing most heavily on my mind is chantelle. We had a really hard break up, and it is making my everyday actions tough. Right around the same time i stopped talking to you, i went into a super depression, and she flaked and instead of being there when i needed her most, she decided she needed to be single, with hopes of getting back together when everything was normal again. I realized that i didn't want to be in a relationship where the person i was with didn't want me there for her tough times, and didn't want to be there for my tough times. Every day it gets a little bit easier, but i envisioned a life with just her and only her. I mean, i passed up countless oppurtunities with other women because chantelle was the woman for me. (come on now, i am still a college man ;)).
My everyday life doesn't change very much because i am working like a maynard. Last week, i worked 75 hours in one week. I have two jobs, and let me tell you, working from 8:30 till 4, then going to your next job at 5, closing, getting off at like 12, and then having to be up at 5:30 for your second job the next day is not fun. It's not what i want to do with my life. The toughest part is watching all my bills get harder and harder out of reach. I am trying my hardest, and it's like i get so close, and then it gets further away.
The second part of this letter is to ask not for you to rescue me, but to have you understand why i was asking for help. I asked for help last time just like i asked my mom for help. I asked my mom for money too, and she gave me some. If you were broke, and i was in that position, i would have asked you still. I know that you make more money then the pres, and i don't care about that. I know you don't want to be a rescuer, but we're family, we're suppose to rescue each other sometimes. If you needed some help, or even if you were having a stressful day, and needed someone to talk to about stupid shit to get your mind off things forl ike 2 seconds, i'd want to be there. I'm not going to skirt around the issue either, i really do want you to help me again, even if it's a little bit.
Also, i don't want you to think that i consider myself a victim. I try to take 100% responsibility for my own actions. Everything I have done in my life has been my own free will. when i chose UCF, it was me that wanted to go, no one else pushing me there. When i became an RA, and an O-teamer, it was my perrogative (excuse my spelling i've been out of school for a while). I don't blame you for anything, and i know that this situation could have been prevented. I made a mistake in not focusing on school, and i can't afford to make any more when i get back to UCF. I really do hope you reconsider helping me, and i don't think it's an issue of rescuing me, i think it's more an issue of understanding mine and your positions. As a father, sometimes helping out a son is something one has to do from time to time. As a mother, that still holds tru. We're family. I'm so proud of what you done, and you seeing outside assistance shows that you are genuinely trying to make things better.
When i first came to gainesville, all i felt around me was abandonment. I felt like you were abandoning me, and i knew things were going down hill. Your seeing a therapist gives me a hope that you do really care. I know that you have an idea about what is best for me, and for my life, and you mean well with everything you do. Just know that right now, i do need help, and support (not just monetary). I wish you could see the man that i have become. I wish you could see that when i put my mind to it, nothing can stop me. At work, i bust my ass, and when i'm at my jobs, you can't even tell that i'm working 75 hours a week. I know i can put that same effort into school, and i know that i will. You've helped teach me a very valuable lesson, but i want this lesson to be a memory, and not an ongoing class.
I'm taking responsibility for my actions, but i can't change the past. One thing my fraternity preaches is no regret for past actions, and no remorse for lost oppurtunities. don't regret anything you've done with carrie and i, just try to change it. Carrie and i will do the same. Carrie and I have a different relationship now, and i'm hoping that it will be a very valuable one to me. Hopefully there will be a time when i can say the same about our relationship. I hope you do take time to reconsider helping me again, and i want you to know that I can do it on my own, it just makes my life a little bit tougher.
I love you
Mitch
P.s. I would never change my last name, it's too much paper work ;) for real tho, i want to be associated with you, and that is one of the few associations that i have.
his "lawyer's" two paragraph response-
Hello Mitch,
I spoke with Maynard and Irene (my evil stepmom) and shared your email with them. Maynard truly appreciates your reaching out to him and wants to have a connection with you. It is important to Maynard that the connection between you and he be free from any financial conversations or requests. If you want to start working on connecting with Maynard on that basis, simply let me know and I will get in touch with Maynard.
Very truly yours,
Bill Hornbostel
Up to this point, i have sent one e-mail to the lawyer telling him to go fuck himself and my dad's rules, but i can't remember exactly what i said. I've been gathering the e-mails from reply's from my father. I have also sent little thoughts to my father about our relationship here and there, and my father has not replied, so i have no copies of what i've written to either Bill or Maynard.
Then, my father sent a letter which i received early this nov. (dated nov. 2nd)
Dear Carrie & Mitch,
I want you to be successful adults and i really want to have a close loving relationship with you. I want to make sure we communicate the way successful adults do. For example, i don't have any relationships with successful adults who:
1. Express a lot of blame
2. Act as if i owe them something
3. Ask me for money.
The successful adults i know take full responsibility for their lives, focus on contributing to the world and to others, and put much of their energy into earning their own money.
As i said, i realy want to have a close, loving relationship with you, so i want to reiterate how I'd like to connect with you. As adults, i want to relate grownup-to-grownup with you, with our communication free of any, blame, entitlement or requests for money in it. Just the kind of relationship I have with other adults I love and care about.
Since I'm not very good at communicating adult-to-adult with you, I want the lawyer and therapist to continue to evaluate your communications before passing them along to me, so they can make sure they're not passing anything to me that has blame, entitlement, or requests for money in it.
With love and hope,
(signed)
Maynard
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Now here is where i make things interesting. I decided to post my response to this on the internet as to make it visible to everyone in the world.
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et me start off by saying,
YOU'RE A FUCKING PUSSY!
as for your three rules, shove them right up your ass.
I don't give a flying fuck about what you find successful. I define success in my life as being happy, and doing what i want to do. If you can't be happy with my life and how i've lived it, there is something wrong with you. How dare you try and judge my success solely on the basis of what you have seen. You've seen my life through a fucking phone line.
Let me break down your three rules as for having a "successful adult relationship"
Rule #1- Express a lot of blame. Sorry dad, but i do take 100% blame for my life and what i have done. I don't blame you for my mistakes. I do blame you for being a shitty father. But i don't think you being a shitty father has destroyed my life, or molded the way that i live my life. It's just a kind of "how not to raise kids" manual.
Rule #2- Act as if i owe them something. Dad, you owed me everything you had as soon as i became your child. At that moment, a father should do everything he can to ensure their son/daughter has a "successful" life. Hell yea i feel like you owe me something. Right now, the only thing i think you truly owe me is the right to hear EVERYTHING i have wanted to say over the last 21/22 years of my life. Please, if you want to get me a present on my birthday, give me a fucking phone call, and listen to everything i have to say. After that, i don't care if you ever try to contact me again. You can have ur shity ass shrink there if u need to.
Rule #3- Ask me for money- I'm sure you're friends with plenty of people that have asked you for money. I.E.- charitable organizations. If i throw a ball, or even pretend to be a sick kid in somolia, would you throw some money my way then? probably not, because it wouldn't reduce your taxes.
Now that you've made all these requests, i just have a couple requests of my own.
1. Grow some balls.
2. Realize success isn't measured by your 80 million dollar worth.
3. get a real shrink, and get some real help.
And something that should be said about all your "succesful" friends. When i lived with you, it seemed like you didn't have any non-work related friends. Maybe you hold too high standards for the human race, and then you can form more "loving" relationships. And if you define success as being boring, having no life, and having a strained family, then i don't want to be successful. Final advice- You need to have more fun... Work isn't everything, those "loving relationships" are what make life great. so take about 100,000 dollars of your fortune and shove them right up your ass...
More to come as time rolls along...
Mitch
P.S. sorry about how long this post is...