V posted again...
...and since I can't answer at her place, I'll answer here:
I've said repeatedly that I have my own problems with the concept "cisgendered" too. It is, as you say, rather sloppy, and it IS difficult to tell where the cutoff is supposed to be. I've said myself before that many people who aren't transgendered don't feel comfortable with their gender ( Read more... )
I've said repeatedly that I have my own problems with the concept "cisgendered" too. It is, as you say, rather sloppy, and it IS difficult to tell where the cutoff is supposed to be. I've said myself before that many people who aren't transgendered don't feel comfortable with their gender ( Read more... )
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The most demeaning, trivializing thing she said toward trans women, though?
You have your identity crisis and your anxieties, fine. I get that and I wish it wasnt so bad for you. But you arent the only ones, and frankly, id have begged to have such problems. So stop fucking shaking your labels around like they mean anything more than they do, we dont live in Disneyworld where dreams are all that matters. Youre stuck on creating labels for dreams that havent even been imagined properly yet, while Im stuck trying to deal with a few decades immersed in the dirt and violence of the most neglected and hated parts of a rich and judgmental society. Theres no reason we cant fumble on along next to each other without even acknowledging each other, because we dont share the same existence at all.
What ( ... )
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*nodsnods* The reason I didn't say that (though I really should've) is because where you quoted her the other day, she referred to "cis"; I wanted to address both just because "cissexual" hasn't really caught on and I highly doubt she'd be aware of the distinction. And... well, like I say here, I think that's part of the whole problem.
The other part being just plain ignorance/misguided rage.
And yeah, anyone who'd beg to be a trans woman because trans women have it so easy is, uh, obviously not a trans woman.
I just... well, I feel like just saying AGAIN "but the murders! what about the murders!" but... well, i said it once already. whether it sinks in really remains to be seen.
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I will be posting about this on QT, probably tomorrow. I'm really tired of this trivializing "I'm oppressed so I can't oppress you" victim mentality that radical feminism tends to foster, based on academic material about how gender is the root of all oppression (and yet somehow oppression of trans people doesn't count as gender oppression...odd, no?).
And yeah, the murder rate is somewhere between 8-16 times higher than the general population - and that's not even getting into other violence, and that's along with the general misogynist violence that all women - cis and trans - experience.
And how deeply offensive is it that apparently she thinks that trans women don't get raped or assaulted in the same ways that cis women do?
Fuck her ivory tower analysis of her own privilege.
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Yeah, the whole idea that rapists clock someone, stop, and wander off, because male privilege is this invincibility shield trans women never lose... well, it just makes me want to smack people whenever I hear it (and V isn't the only one who says it, lest this become one of those "AAAH A THREATTT!" dramaramas.)
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For me, cis privilege isn't empty for the same reason white privilege isn't. It's hard to break down who falls into cis and who falls into trans, to tell people who falls into each camp, but that doesn't make the concept of cis- and transgender any less real. It's like defining who is white. When I was a kid, there were really only two racial classes that I heard about, white and black. But then defining who exactly was white, and to what degree they were white was a full time job. Were Italian or Polish people as white as German or English people? No, because there were entire groups of jokes about them that whiter people used. What about the Irish? Jewish people? Hispanic people? That it was always up in the air whether any particular person was white didn't mean that white privilege didn't exist.
Again, I'm speaking from my experiences, so perhaps other see this differently. I thought it an apt parallel, though.
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My being genderqueer is kind of like some of the other white people seeing me as
"swarthy" when I was a kid -- yeah, that sucked and was rooted, ultimately, in racism... but it doesn't make me not white.
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"But yeh, it was around the genderberg issue, and to be honest belledamme - I just think youre mean. A lot of the time. I think you often twist what people have said, and I dont think you give people room to make mistakes. When a radical feminist makes a mistake, you hold it against them forever, and you bring it up at every opportunity, in about a hundred different places across the net. "
Ha! I wonder if V has ever seen Glengarry Glen Ross:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2uNslC2xFI (specifically, at about 3:50)
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...yeah, never mind. I do think it's interesting that for all that I have this long history of being "mean" and so on I seem to actually be rating a more respectful response than Lisa. and ftr, the married thing? okay, hear that you aren't; and she apologized for the mistake? but, like, that's just -one thing.-
and actually having a male partner and the -option- to marry is--whatever, I'm not doing the priv discussion now, just...you know, I think I left the oven on. -wander off-
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