Application

[svenjaliv]

Judging by the ratio of rejected to accepted applications, I guess I've got bad odds, but here's hoping. I'm not one of those people who considers their work "high art", my main interest being in telling stories and telling them well. I'm looking for feedback and criticism, so please do tell me what you think. At the very least, I'll get some idea

Comments

Re: No

[somerled]

There's something to be said for paring a story down to actions and dialog. But that's not exactly what I'm getting at.

A lot of the problem is timing and pace. Yes, you want the reader to find out about this world, but interrupt a chase scene so that the character can tell the reader he's worried about some kid and he knows the guards and doesn't want people to die, and that the ceiling has been neglected for decades? This is classic "skip over" stuff.

Pace. Timing. When you are running from the police, what do you think about? If you want the reader to feel it, you have to put those kinds of thoughts into the reader's head.

You want to say the ceiling fell down decades ago? Reveal it in a conversation between Lif and the old owner. Make it into a statement about what has happened in that world. Lock it into one perfect observation about the place, and return to that observation when Lif runs through it. This is how you bring back an association in the midst of action.

You want to reveal the guards are Lif's friends? Fine. Let it be when they catch up with him. Don't give that away before necessary. Or have them know each other in an earlier scene entirely. Don't interrupt an action sequence with backstory.

Pace and timing.

There is a lot of just plain circumlocution and redundancy, too. But that's a whole other conversation.

Re: No

[svenjaliv]

There's something to be said for paring a story down to actions and dialog.

I guess that's a difference in taste right there. But it's probably a good practice, all the same. I'll definitely keep it in mind, as an exercise if nothing else.

interrupt a chase scene so that the character can tell the reader he's worried about some kid and he knows the guards and doesn't want people to die, and that the ceiling has been neglected for decades? This is classic "skip over" stuff.

What I was trying to do is show that a) he cares about the others and b) he's trained enough for situations like this that he can be semi-calm about them and still observe his surroundings.

When you are running from the police, what do you think about?

Wondering why they're chasing me and how to get away from them, I guess. :D

Reveal it in a conversation between Lif and the old owner.

...who isn't around, that being the main reason for the neglect. ;) It's an abandoned castle, in ruins. I have to get that across somehow, don't I, otherwise the reader's going to wonder why the hell there's a handy hole in the ceiling.

Lock it into one perfect observation about the place, and return to that observation when Lif runs through it.

... I thought you just said not to do that? Either he thinks about the place and how it's in ruins, or he doesn't. Saying it twice won't help matters, surely?

You want to reveal the guards are Lif's friends? Fine. Let it be when they catch up with him.

Good point. Probably better to leave the reader a bit confused as to why he's reluctant to fight them.

There is a lot of just plain circumlocution and redundancy, too.

I got that when you crossed most of it out. :D And on the other points... I'm not trying to be defensive or anything, it's more that I don't really see what you're getting at with some of what you're saying.

Re: No

[somerled]

You can't do everything in one place, is my point. Timing and pace.

The discussion of the hole in the ceiling belongs in a different scene entirely. You can't squeeze it into the action just because you want the reader to know something.

So one approach is to have a whole other scene in which the castle is discussed. Then have Lif see one small thing that locks that discussion into an image. Maybe Lif notices some initials carved in a dangling beam. Well, when he is running from the troops, he can see the beam with the initials on it, and the reader suddenly remembers about the hole, and the reason the castle is like this, and so it doesn't have to interrupt the action scene. That is what I am getting at.

No one is trained enough for the first time they are chased, and even if they are trained and calm, they do not think of extraneous things, the history of the place, etc. They are deeply, almost wordlessly focused. All training tells you to clear your mind and act. So you don't want to fill up the action space with words, it creates a huge dissonance between what is supposed to be happening, and the experience you make for the reader. Your job as a writer is not to fill the reader's head with information, it is to get the reader to experience the scene. I hope this makes more sense now.

Think about what the characters are feeling here. They are in danger, in an illegal transaction, and they should want to get the business done as quickly as possible. The coin counting seems to waste time. Every word might put them in danger. They are tense. Things that are normal seem ominous and threatening. You want the reader to feel that danger. The words you put on the page are the ones that go into the reader's head. If the narration is chatty and ambling, that completely undoes anything tense and dangerous in the scene. See what I mean?

Re: No

[svenjaliv]

That makes more sense, yeah. Thanks very much. I'll keep all of that in mind when I re-visit it again. I've already re-written this about five times, but I want it to be as good as it can be, so I'll have another go. I need to work on the tension a good bit, I guess.

Thank you. That helps a lot. I appreciate you taking the time to comment and explain. :)