Not late, what are you talking about

Feb 28, 2011 09:47

Discussion Post 8
February 13th: Icicle Inn - Junon

Discussion Topics & Timeline under the cut )

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bofoddity March 26 2011, 16:32:23 UTC
- The illusion. So horrible to watch. I get the feeling that on some level Cloud knows exactly what's coming from the moment it starts, accusing Sephiroth from trying to make him believe that he was never in Nibelheim. Meanwhile Sephiroth knows exactly what strings to pull: claiming Cloud's just a failed copy of Sephiroth himself, that nothing about him is real, and also mocking Tifa, who knows that something is off about Cloud and doesn't want to face that. She and Cloud are both in denial, only Cloud is way deeper in. I feel so sorry for both of them.

Cloud's "I didn't have to worry about it because I was.." line suggests to me that he was starting to remember the actual truth of having never made it to SOLDIER at all, but he's not capable of facing that truth, and thanks to Sephiroth he now has another alternate truth to choose.

- Regarding Sephiroth's motives: I think he was definitely getting his personal revenge against Cloud here. Sure, Cloud is just an insignificant human to him, but he was also an insignificant human who dared to stab him and toss him into Lifestream, and he needs to be punished for that. Sephiroth does exactly that, after which he's done with Cloud, not bothering him for the rest of the game until their final confrontation. And is shocked when Cloud defeats him for good.

- Some Sephiroth-Cloud comparison:
* They both have solitary childhoods where they feel different from others, and come to believe that they're either special or better than others.
* Sephiroth gets recognition for his special nature by becoming a war hero and having special abilities; Cloud seeks recognition and fails to get it. The recognition Sephiroth gets doesn't seem to be enough for him; he's still expecting something when he comes to Nibelheim.
* Sephiroth's existential crisis is due to him being more special than everybody else; Cloud's existential crisis is due to him being nothing, not even himself. Both crisis's lead to breakdowns in which they submit to their 'true natures'.

- Tifa gets a lot of flak for her reaction to the illusion, which is mostly unfair. Let's see:
* The guy she's known ever since she was a child and who she views as a close friend is claiming he was there when their hometown burnt down, and can confirm his presence by recalling some major facts, which shouldn't be possible. That she would be too confused to know what to do is not an unreasonable reaction.
* She also didn't know the whole truth herself, and had no clue why Cloud was the way he was in the first place. Again, her confusion is not an unreasonable reaction, malicious even less.
* Given how little she knows, the traumas she has gone through herself and her and Cloud's habit of idealizing, manipulating and running away from truths, it's also not unreasonable to assume that maybe she was in denial too.

tl;dr: She's a flawed person who made some horrible choices because of her insecurities and fear.

- Moving onto other characters for a while, this is also the part where we discover Hojo's true importance. We get some indirect insights to him as Rufus mocks him for being second-rate, which leads to the discovery that Hojo has his own agenda and keeps some information from his boss, such as Gast's report about Weapons.

- Teleported to where Hojo, Rufus and Scarlet are and faced by Nanaki/Barret who has been tricked into bringing the Black Materia over, Cloud breaks down for good. You can have him resist you while approaching Nanaki/Barret, but in the end he will go along with it and accept the Black Materia, and Sephiroh shows him mercy just this one time by allowing Cloud to say his goodbyes. He confirms Tifa's worst fears (who has a breakdown of her own) and reaches his lowest point when he begs Hojo for a number, who is in turn humiliated about only the failure making it to the Reunion. Another personal revenge from Sephiroth.

- Hojo explains the Reunion and confirms some things: it's Sephiroth who manipulated Jenova into moving and therefore prompted the Clones into moving, Cloud included. Cloud nods along to the explanation before facing the real Sephiroth, commenting that they 'finally meet again'. Again you can make him resist before he finally hands Black Materia over to Sephiroth, though it's pointless.

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