A Bunch of Thoughts
Here we go, another post about something oh-so-controversial: homosexuality and marriage.
This one was brought to us from prester_scott, and it's a lot to read (not just the body of the message, but the comment threads as well):
The Root of Marriage
My overall assessment is that the post was very good; however, it is structured around a fundamental message that so many people just don't want to accept OR address objectively. Thus there were a lot of "hecklers" or "trolls" making comments here and there, too- but in spite of that, many people constructed some rather compelling responses.
One interesting side-effect of what Scott wrote was that one the users who was his "friend" up till this point became SO offended that they could no longer be friends- which was explained in a very emotional, huffy outburst of ironic LJ drama.
There was a very good comment made as a sort of response to this, in the spirit of "we should all still be trying to get along, despite our differences." For me, it served as a counterpoint to all of the general squawking I bore witness to:
It is a matter of both belief and principle. To follow God is to be an idealist; that is, to know that there -are- absolute truths, and that they trump any mortal wishy-washyness. To follow and obey are difficult even at the best of times, and we struggle to do so.
Truly, truly, if a postmodernist practiced what they preach, then the idealist should not be condemned as a person for their beliefs, either. If you say that all beliefs are valid, then even ours, that disagree with yours, must be valid by your own argument. You cannot both escape across the bridge and keep the enemy from following. You must either both cross or both be balked at the other side.
Please understand that condemnation for sinfulness is not hatred, nor is it something unique to this issue. All have fallen short, and all have sinned, are sinning, and probably will sin again tomorrow. That this sin in particular has the attention of others is a product of the times. Other times have focussed on other sins, with both good and bad results.
There are seven deadly sins, which break down into a host of others. If you would break off a friendship just for a differing opinion on one of them, what hope do you have on ever having friends again?
Jeez- I mean, come on! Willing to cut off a friendship with someone because of philosophical differences?! That's as "closed-minded" as you can get. Not to mention that if I acted like that, my number of friends (or friendly associates) would be cut into about an eighth of the size it is now. I don't treat people like that, and I'm thankful that my friends (secular and otherwise) don't treat me that way too. There IS more to life than agreeing all the time (isn't there, skreidle? =D)...
::shakes head:: I just don't get ANYBODY sometimes. Why do people take things as a PERSONAL ATTACK just because it "looks" like individual and specific criticism?
WE (Christians) are not here as the persecutors. That assumption is a worthless refuge, anyway*. If one claims persecution so as to somehow invalidate our expression of what right and wrong is, that is not on our heads- nor does it invalidate what we believe on account of it.
I don't have much more to say now than what has already been said. What bothers me is, well- people.
Honestly, I think it'd be great- I really do- if we could all agree on the same "common ground" that we're supposed to have, but the realist in me doesn't expect to ever see that. As a result, this conflict- our struggle- will continue to go on until one side expands enough to stamp the other out. With prejudice.
This animosity has the power to destroy BOTH sides, but we exercise it so freely and heedlessly. I do fear the future because of this.
More to be written as my thoughts clear- if that can ever happen.
*...for example, I might remind everyone that Christians THEMSELVES have been persecuted, to one degree or another, since the days of the Roman Empire (in essence, ever since Christianity was formed) and indeed in many places still today- in case you didn't remember. Anyone (Christian or otherwise) with basic common-sense and knowledge understands that persecution is wrong and actually doesn't ever change anything in people, long-term or short-term.
That is all.
This one was brought to us from prester_scott, and it's a lot to read (not just the body of the message, but the comment threads as well):
The Root of Marriage
My overall assessment is that the post was very good; however, it is structured around a fundamental message that so many people just don't want to accept OR address objectively. Thus there were a lot of "hecklers" or "trolls" making comments here and there, too- but in spite of that, many people constructed some rather compelling responses.
One interesting side-effect of what Scott wrote was that one the users who was his "friend" up till this point became SO offended that they could no longer be friends- which was explained in a very emotional, huffy outburst of ironic LJ drama.
There was a very good comment made as a sort of response to this, in the spirit of "we should all still be trying to get along, despite our differences." For me, it served as a counterpoint to all of the general squawking I bore witness to:
It is a matter of both belief and principle. To follow God is to be an idealist; that is, to know that there -are- absolute truths, and that they trump any mortal wishy-washyness. To follow and obey are difficult even at the best of times, and we struggle to do so.
Truly, truly, if a postmodernist practiced what they preach, then the idealist should not be condemned as a person for their beliefs, either. If you say that all beliefs are valid, then even ours, that disagree with yours, must be valid by your own argument. You cannot both escape across the bridge and keep the enemy from following. You must either both cross or both be balked at the other side.
Please understand that condemnation for sinfulness is not hatred, nor is it something unique to this issue. All have fallen short, and all have sinned, are sinning, and probably will sin again tomorrow. That this sin in particular has the attention of others is a product of the times. Other times have focussed on other sins, with both good and bad results.
There are seven deadly sins, which break down into a host of others. If you would break off a friendship just for a differing opinion on one of them, what hope do you have on ever having friends again?
Jeez- I mean, come on! Willing to cut off a friendship with someone because of philosophical differences?! That's as "closed-minded" as you can get. Not to mention that if I acted like that, my number of friends (or friendly associates) would be cut into about an eighth of the size it is now. I don't treat people like that, and I'm thankful that my friends (secular and otherwise) don't treat me that way too. There IS more to life than agreeing all the time (isn't there, skreidle? =D)...
::shakes head:: I just don't get ANYBODY sometimes. Why do people take things as a PERSONAL ATTACK just because it "looks" like individual and specific criticism?
WE (Christians) are not here as the persecutors. That assumption is a worthless refuge, anyway*. If one claims persecution so as to somehow invalidate our expression of what right and wrong is, that is not on our heads- nor does it invalidate what we believe on account of it.
I don't have much more to say now than what has already been said. What bothers me is, well- people.
Honestly, I think it'd be great- I really do- if we could all agree on the same "common ground" that we're supposed to have, but the realist in me doesn't expect to ever see that. As a result, this conflict- our struggle- will continue to go on until one side expands enough to stamp the other out. With prejudice.
This animosity has the power to destroy BOTH sides, but we exercise it so freely and heedlessly. I do fear the future because of this.
More to be written as my thoughts clear- if that can ever happen.
*...for example, I might remind everyone that Christians THEMSELVES have been persecuted, to one degree or another, since the days of the Roman Empire (in essence, ever since Christianity was formed) and indeed in many places still today- in case you didn't remember. Anyone (Christian or otherwise) with basic common-sense and knowledge understands that persecution is wrong and actually doesn't ever change anything in people, long-term or short-term.
That is all.