Meta, I guess
You know, for someone who has written rather a lot of het fic and even femslash in SPN fandom, I am surprisingly neutral on most debates within the fandom about the specific female characters on SPN. I don’t actively dislike any of them (except if you’re supposed to, like Meg) but most of them I don’t think about too much outside of whatever episode they’re in. But to be fair, this is pretty much the same for male guest stars as well. I find guest characters more interesting if they have their own storylines (i.e. Ash and Andy), but I don’t think that every single one has to. Nor do I think that all of these stories have to be told in canon.
I like Jo better now that she’s run off, because it means she’s like for reals about wanting to be a hunter regardless of Sam and Dean. I liked Lenore because of the whole “good vampire” thing. I like Ava because she’s hilarious and normal and her part in the “chosen kids” arc is interesting to me. I liked the female cop in Benders and I like Ellen and I liked Missouri. I like fanon!Jess. But I don’t really care that much about which ones other people like or don’t like. One of the things, for me, about being a feminist viewer is for women to have equal opportunity to be awesome or not awesome. All “positive images” would be boring, and hold women to a different standard than men. I mean, fuck, two of my favorite female characters on TV are Buffy and Faith, both of whom have pretty unlikeable moments/qualities.
The thing I guess I’m not neutral on is that I like there being women in the SPN-verse. Different kinds of women with different agendas and whatever. Not all of whom have to be awesomecakes or even all that significant.
One thought though that I’m having that I’ll take some blame for: I’m tired of thinking too hard about whether or not any given female character introduced is going to be a love interest for either Sam or Dean. I mean, I just don’t want that to be my first consideration. I think though, that this comes from reading Kripke interviews where he *says* that there are going to be love interests. It’s only natural that we then speculate, but I just-I want for there to be women in canon that are not just there for that purpose. Which is not to say that if y’all write good fic where any and all of them fuck either boy is a problem for me. Or you could write about them fucking each other-that would be okay too. :P Actually, DO WHATEVER YOU WANT. Yay fandom for giving us all room to like and dislike whatever we want. This is my modus operandi. I mean, even with the “pairing” that I’m least interested in/seems most OOC to me (John/either of his kids) it doesn’t bother me that other people read or write that.
Also, don't get me wrong, I like reading Kripke interviews because I like Kripke, but for me at least, this seems to be an unfortunate side effect.
One last thought-hopefully, the fact that there are more secondary characters in general this season, but women especially, will make the issue of say whether one likes or dislikes Jo seem like less of a lynch pin about what one’s personal gender politics are. I mean, I'm sure that sometimes that *is* part of it for some people perhaps, but not always.
And in vaguely related news, I’m totally fascinated with that random, older female hunter who was at the bar in the Roadhouse that we saw for two seconds. Maybe she should be Ellen’s secret lesbian lover or something. Or not. I just like that she exists.
ETA: I lied--here's another thought. I'm happy that the show has managed this season to both include more female characters AND keep a strong focus on the Sam and Dean relationship. I think this is possible and is what I aim to do when I write SPN fic with girls/other people in it also. And the fact that both Sam and Dean are overly interested in each others' sex/love lives pleases me every time. Make of that what you will.
ETA some more: I'm not sure I was entirely clear in the previous discussion, but I guess my main point was that I'm unapologetic about liking women on SPN, not so much in terms of individual characters but in their existence in the 'verse. And I want them to be there for more reasons than just for the boys to lust after or rescue or mourn, which I think is happening more than in the past as the universe they live in expands. Which is NOT to say that I don't "shallowly" want to see Sam and Dean get their naked on. Nor does it mean that I have a problem with a show that focuses on men and their emotions and journey. I *revel* in that. Men having feelings, caring about each other (and others) and expressing it? Part of the feminist agenda, IMO.
OK, shit. I really need to eat something and do some work now.
I like Jo better now that she’s run off, because it means she’s like for reals about wanting to be a hunter regardless of Sam and Dean. I liked Lenore because of the whole “good vampire” thing. I like Ava because she’s hilarious and normal and her part in the “chosen kids” arc is interesting to me. I liked the female cop in Benders and I like Ellen and I liked Missouri. I like fanon!Jess. But I don’t really care that much about which ones other people like or don’t like. One of the things, for me, about being a feminist viewer is for women to have equal opportunity to be awesome or not awesome. All “positive images” would be boring, and hold women to a different standard than men. I mean, fuck, two of my favorite female characters on TV are Buffy and Faith, both of whom have pretty unlikeable moments/qualities.
The thing I guess I’m not neutral on is that I like there being women in the SPN-verse. Different kinds of women with different agendas and whatever. Not all of whom have to be awesomecakes or even all that significant.
One thought though that I’m having that I’ll take some blame for: I’m tired of thinking too hard about whether or not any given female character introduced is going to be a love interest for either Sam or Dean. I mean, I just don’t want that to be my first consideration. I think though, that this comes from reading Kripke interviews where he *says* that there are going to be love interests. It’s only natural that we then speculate, but I just-I want for there to be women in canon that are not just there for that purpose. Which is not to say that if y’all write good fic where any and all of them fuck either boy is a problem for me. Or you could write about them fucking each other-that would be okay too. :P Actually, DO WHATEVER YOU WANT. Yay fandom for giving us all room to like and dislike whatever we want. This is my modus operandi. I mean, even with the “pairing” that I’m least interested in/seems most OOC to me (John/either of his kids) it doesn’t bother me that other people read or write that.
Also, don't get me wrong, I like reading Kripke interviews because I like Kripke, but for me at least, this seems to be an unfortunate side effect.
One last thought-hopefully, the fact that there are more secondary characters in general this season, but women especially, will make the issue of say whether one likes or dislikes Jo seem like less of a lynch pin about what one’s personal gender politics are. I mean, I'm sure that sometimes that *is* part of it for some people perhaps, but not always.
And in vaguely related news, I’m totally fascinated with that random, older female hunter who was at the bar in the Roadhouse that we saw for two seconds. Maybe she should be Ellen’s secret lesbian lover or something. Or not. I just like that she exists.
ETA: I lied--here's another thought. I'm happy that the show has managed this season to both include more female characters AND keep a strong focus on the Sam and Dean relationship. I think this is possible and is what I aim to do when I write SPN fic with girls/other people in it also. And the fact that both Sam and Dean are overly interested in each others' sex/love lives pleases me every time. Make of that what you will.
ETA some more: I'm not sure I was entirely clear in the previous discussion, but I guess my main point was that I'm unapologetic about liking women on SPN, not so much in terms of individual characters but in their existence in the 'verse. And I want them to be there for more reasons than just for the boys to lust after or rescue or mourn, which I think is happening more than in the past as the universe they live in expands. Which is NOT to say that I don't "shallowly" want to see Sam and Dean get their naked on. Nor does it mean that I have a problem with a show that focuses on men and their emotions and journey. I *revel* in that. Men having feelings, caring about each other (and others) and expressing it? Part of the feminist agenda, IMO.
OK, shit. I really need to eat something and do some work now.