I am a bitter Fantasy fan (now with recs)

[mothwing]

I have been reading Fantasy written by English and American authors ever since I was fourteen. It is my favourite genre, and most of my favourite books are Fantasy books. This genre was my cure for sadness, loneliness, and boredom ever since I discovered it. And even though I love that genre and spend quite an amount of time defending its literary

Comments

[holyschist]

I'd add some serious cavaeats to both MZB and Jim Butcher. I love their books, but Butcher's Harry Dresden has a serious chivalry complex which is mostly portrayed as something that gets him in trouble but can still be really irritating (TBH, I don't read the books for Harry himself, since I kind of want to smack him a lot--but they are great fun and have well-written female characters). MZB's books have some weird gender and sexuality issues, particularly in the Darkover novels. Lackey's books often have a serious case of Tragic Gay Men and Rape as Plot Motivator for both heroines and the aforementioned TGM; I frankly can't stand her writing anymore. I think her best books in the Valdemar series are probably By the Sword and the Tarma and Kethry novels. There are definitely triggery rape scenes in the later; I can't remember about the former. Mind, these are not recommendations--just which books if hers I think are the best if you feel you must give them a try

[shenth]

I was just coming back to rec Sandman! However, it has some serious issues at times. The way Wanda is treated in A Game of You is just...ugh. Could be worse, but it's not great. I won't spoil it.

Overall, though, great series. Death and Delirium are two of my favorite characters ever.

[holyschist]

It's been a while since I read it, so I don't remember the specifics. Yeah, most of these books aren't perfect. :(

[mothwing]

Wow. You ought to be doing the list at the top, seriously. Thanks for the recommendations! Wise Child in particular sounds extremely worth reading.

[holyschist]

Fantasy is pretty much my favorite genre. :) Wise Child is an absolutely fantastic, beautiful gem of a book, and it's all about the relationship between the girl and her female teacher. I'm not such a fan of the prequel, Juniper, or the sequel, but they're worth reading, too.

[mothwing]

The review I read really made me curious about how the character of Juniper works- there are too few female mentor figures that I found in any way relatable.

[holyschist]

You might like the prequel, too, then, although I think starting with Wise Child is the best. That's kind of an odd review in some ways (and the way I read it, Juniper is definitely a "witch", although not necessarily one who isn't Christian as well), but it does sort of get at the interesting dynamics with Juniper, Wise Child, and Wise Child's biological mother.

It's a very short book--written before the trend of YA novels being bricks.

[mothwing]

The Last Light of the Sun sounds SO awesome. Vikings!!

I like reading m/m stories, too, but the fact that it sometimes seems as though the majority of readers was interested in little else has me frustrated occasionally.

With regards to your remarks on fandom vs. mainstream writing I think you're right - which is probably why my level of frustration is, unfairly, much higher when it comes to fandom than it is for mainstream fiction, at which my anger probably ought to be directed.

[squinting_kitty]

I had issues with The Last Light of the Sun, actually. The treatment of women in the book was kinda 'eh, in my opinion, but that could have been because GGK was talking about Vikings and wanted to portray the Vikings that way. The plot was also pretty male-centric. There was really only one strong female character that I recall, and she was definitely a Strong Female Character.

I liked GGK's Ysabel though. Really interesting story.

And I just love the Fionavar trilogy, but I'm a high fantasy nerd. Fully recognize the problems with the books (and they are there), but I still love it.

[mothwing]

I had an inkling it would be male-centric when I read the part of the summary that is on Wiki, but was too distracted by the Shiny of Vikings (!!!!). As long as it stays within historically accurate limits, I'll probably stay too distracted to be bothered, but I'll add the caveat - I hope it doesn't take me out of the story.

I added Ysabel.

[holyschist]

I like Last Light of the Sun a lot, but other GGK fans don't. On the other hand, I couldn't get through Fionavar, and not because of the rape but because I disliked it. I love how grounded in detail his historical fantasy is, though, and he does write wonderful female characters.

With regards to your remarks on fandom vs. mainstream writing I think you're right - which is probably why my level of frustration is, unfairly, much higher when it comes to fandom than it is for mainstream fiction, at which my anger probably ought to be directed. Eh, I don't think it's unfair--I expect more from fandom! I mean, fandom has made me FAR more aware of all kinds of issues, from race to disability, because there ARE a lot of fans who are very thoughtful about their reading and writing and want to create stuff that is nuanced and not offensive. So it's extra-frustrating when there are also so many fans who are swallowing the media crap whole, or going a step further (e.g. female-character-hate in some fandoms

[calixti]

UGH, Mercedes Lackey. I have to add a caveat for her 500 Kingdoms novels for heterocentrism, 'justified' by the guiding magic of the universe. Also, obnoxiously obvious naming.

Also, definitely trigger warnings for rape on the Arrows trilogy, the Vanyel trilogy, Kethry and Tarma's backstories, et cetera.
[trigger warning]

I mean, Tarma's entire clan is killed, she's raped, tortured, and then gets all vengeance-y and literally turns asexual. And Kethry's rape-as-backstory comes up ONLY for her to have a Confrontation with her rapist, where she figures out he's a worthless piece of trash and instantly gets over it. And of course, all Talia's trauma over being RAPED AND TORTURED is healed by her boyfriend's (and soulmate's!) magic penis.

HAAAAAAAAAAATE.
[end trigger warning]

[mothwing]

D=

I'll, er, remove the recommendation until someone recommends a specific book, then, shall I? This sounds just HORRID.

[holyschist]

See, that wasn't even the Tarma episode I was thinking of. I was thinking of the one with the demon (?) and magically changing her outward personality and appearance.

Yeah, I have serious, serious problems with Lackey as a feminist or queer-friendly writer, although I am still sort of fond of Kerowyn and Tarma and Kethry (although not how Lackey treats the later two).

[trigger/spoiler warning]

...honestly, I can't think of a lot of the Valdemar or Gryphon books that don't have rape. It's one of her favorite plot devices All the stuff with the, um, I forget their name--the super-magic Vale people? With the pretty gay wizard and Darkwind's angsty gay father and what happens to them?

[end trigger/spoiler warning]

(Well, The Silver Gryphon was pretty okay, probably because it was mostly a survival story in a jungle, iirc. But some of the other Gryphon books were not so

[calixti]

I haven't read any of her co-written books, but I have read her Wizards of London series, which has incredibly obnoxiously obvious theme naming (seriously, one book has a Water Master named Marina and an evil Satanist witch named Arachne), and race issues in one of them, with two magical Indian women, one of whom is Miss Evil McBadPerson. But ignoring that one IN ITS ENTIRETY and aside from the theme naming, they're not bad. Retellings of fairy tales with the princesses kicking ass and taking names. Though Phoenix and Ashes, being a Cinderella retelling, needs an abuse trigger warning for the treatment of the main character by her stepmother. And well, 500 Kingdoms I already mentioned ridiculous heterocentrism. x_x

And she keeps getting rec'd to me as a 'feminist fantasy' author! WTF?

[holyschist]

I read a couple of the fairytale retellings...I vaguely recall liking the Swan Lake one okay. But her books really don't blow me away. (The cover artist for most of them, on the other hand, I adore. She does Michelle West's covers, too, and a bunch of others.)

And she keeps getting rec'd to me as a 'feminist fantasy' author! WTF?

I find it baffling for the same reason I find Anne McCaffrey being recommended for her female characters baffling. Oh, god, the gender dynamics and horrible sexual orientation fail of Pern! (Not to mention racefail and sciencefail.) But eh, I guess if you don't think too much about what happens to their female characters and the underlying themes of the books, they do write superficially strong female protagonists.