birthday fic for rasetsunyo

[feliciter]

coming in just before the chimes of midnight, many happy returns of the day, rasetsunyo!

Wen Zhong, as promised (prompt: "We deceive ourselves"):

Comments

[feliciter]

It was difficult since Wen Zhong for all his honesty and plain-dealing is hard for me to read as a character, but glad it worked for you.

IIRC it was ep 36 or thereabouts that Wen Zhong was going to send cooked grain which wouldn't germinate to famine!Wu so as to weaken them further and allow Yue to come in; Gou Jian got wind of it and replaced it with good grain, which was lucky since the spy uhh Zhu Jiying I think had sent a message to WZX. So when WZX checked the grain and found it sound Fu Chai thought he was just paranoid.

Later Gou Jian chastises Wen Zhong publicly for going against the Will of Heaven by making innocents suffer and declares that he has no more thoughts of conquering Wu so Wen Zhong is v.penitent and says he deserves to die etc, but Gou Jian says it's not you who deserves to die, it's the spy, and outs Zhu Jiying. ZJY eventually has a change of heart after being forgiven and can be seen leading troops to Wu.

there are alternate histories where Xi Shi disappears with Fan Li or just disappears, but the record seems to be unanimous on Wen Zhong ;_; though for The Great Revival canon I maintain that Wen Zhong did receive his just reward in the end, to make up for everything else that happened to him.

[rasetsunyo]

Spy Jie Zibao! Zhu Jiying is Mr. "RARRGH I KEEEL YOU!" whom Gou Jian later brought back to the fold. And he serves Gou Jian loyally ever after.

Jie Zibao is executed I think.

[flemmings]

I don't remember anything happening to Jie Zibao myself- another face on the cutting room floor, I figure- but then I watched the last five eps through my metaphorical fingers, waiting for those rocks to fall, and my memories are off (see: forgetting the whole cooked grain plot).

[feliciter]

Oops you're right! >_<

So Zhu Jiying was in prison for however many years until Wen Zhong gave him the whatchamacallit sword and told him all was forgiven by Gou Jian (and what *that* was all about or what happened to Zhu Jiying, I don't remember either.)

[flemmings]

I thought it had something to do with 'Zhu Jiying runs Gou Jian through = Gou Jian is a wounded guy in a coma = Gou Jian is no longer a threat, send him home.' Or maybe that's taking what the subtitles say ('you saved me') too literally. (I thought it was Gou Jian himself comes and frees Zhu. Hacking through manacles doesn't sound like Wen Zhong.)

[feliciter]

taking what the subtitles say ('you saved me') too literally

That's exactly what he says, and precisely what he means- his injury (and hence the fear that a foreign king under the "protection" of Wu would die there) was the impetus for Fu Chai to send him home.

(Gou Jian does come to see Zhu and hacks the manacles away with the General-Slaying Sword, which is then presented to Zhu by Wen Zhong who conveys the King's order that he is to be promoted to top general with the authority to kill anyone who he deems to be a traitor, i.e. Shi Mai's old job and weapon. Wen Zhong is so adorkable when he then whispers to an understandably-stunned Zhu blnakly holding the sword like it was a piece of wood, "Shouldn't you get going now?")

[flemmings]

Ahh, right, right. Watching through fingers muddies the memory. Maybe I should skip all of Wu- am already dragging feet about going through that again- and look at disk 8 again, which is as happy as Woxin can get.

the fear that a foreign king under the "protection" of Wu would die there

Yet another detail I didn't pick up from the subtitles. Though seriously? If Fu Chai was that worried he should have kept a better eye on what was happening to the Yueites during their early captivity when there was a good chance Gou Jian would have died from typhus or ill treatment or pneumonia from standing out in the rain. Fu Chai: Always The Last To Know.

[feliciter]

Actually the last 2 disks (the penultimate one especially since was rushing through) are a tad hazy for me too - only remembered the sword since was selectively watching the Wen Zhong bits for fic.

Actually I don't think the dialogue specifically says so, but I think the understanding would have been that Gou Jian&co were sort-of political hostages. WZX would probably have kept most of the details of the treatment of the Yue-ites in general and Gou Jian in particular from Fu Chai (historically, Fu Chai installed Gou Jian+wife in a house next to the stables: he was a groom and she was a maidservant - not exalted, but not unduly ardous either.)

The husband is always the last to know about his mother's ill-treatment of his wife :p

[flemmings]

(historically, Fu Chai installed Gou Jian+wife in a house next to the stables: he was a groom and she was a maidservant - not exalted, but not unduly ardous either.)

Historical Fu Chai has more smarts than series Fu Chai. Makes a big deal of ignoring WZX's advice and enslaving Gou Jian because of the long-term obsession he has with the man, and then forgets all about him. Some obsession, say I, and lots of 'Fu Chai! Have you forgotten that WZX will revenge your father's death?!'

[flemmings]

It was difficult since Wen Zhong for all his honesty and plain-dealing is hard for me to read as a character,

He is, isn't he? I was blaming subtitles and the fact that he doesn't *look* the soul of honesty however much he may be it. But he doesn't pigeon-hole well for me. I still don't really know what makes him tick.

the record seems to be unanimous on Wen Zhong ;_;

Historical Gou Jian is looking more and more like a truly nasty piece of goods. Amazing that he makes it into Moral Ed.

But then, as you say, Great Revival is AU to begin with. Fu Chai isn't Helu's heir, Xi Shi isn't discovered during a talent hunt, Gou Jian is evidently monogamous and, for twenty years, celibate, and has no army of sons from which to select an heir etc etc. So (happily) in conclusion: Wen Zhong died in bed.

[feliciter]

Historical Gou Jian is looking more and more like a truly nasty piece of goods

The WTF part is that ancient sources stress his moral superiority and ingenuity in spite of everything >_<

Great Revival is AU to begin with

Even read somewhere that Fu Chai was Crown Prince Bo's son and hence Helu's grandson (which makes Gou Jian his uhh step-uncle XD), and that he was the one who sent Fan Li and Wen Zhong the warning message (by arrow into camp during the siege) about outliving their usefulness.

I find the historical image of Wen Zhong going up and down Yue shouting a la Monty Python: Bring out yer girls! Bring out yer girls! rather irresistible, though XD

[flemmings]

Ancient sources are misogynistic to a fault. Killing the female saviour of your country lest you become besotted yourself doubtless struck them as a virtuous action. Killing loyal retainers OTOH usually gets slammed. Killing loyal retainers because they have ten ways to undermine a country and have only used three of them, leaving them seven to use on you, is batshit: esp. since it looks to me like Wen Zhong's strategies only work if you don't know they're strategies. What happened to 'forewarned is forearmed' in the ancient world?

Bring out yer girls! Bring out yer girls!

There's something a little Pythonish about Wen Zhong (and this Fan Li) anyway; possibly that they're the only characters I can identify where the writer seemed to be doing (intentional) humour. Shi Mai and his daughter arm-wrestling to see who can cut their throat first are equally as Pythonish, but that's unintentional.

[feliciter]

Killing the female saviour of your country lest you become besotted yourself

Actually half historical opinion is divided about whether it was Gou Jian himself or his (presumably-not-Ya-Yu) empress who ordered Xi Shi to be drowned. (can imagine that said misogynistic ancients would have been approved equally of the latter as being characteristic of feminine jealousy >_<)

Wen Zhong's strategies only work if you don't know they're strategies

I suppose historical!Gou Jian would have gotten more like WZX in his raging paranoiac senility and feared that someone as capable as Wen Zhong would have other unmentioned (and unmentionable) strategies up his sleeve his loyalty were to waver (and even Woxin!Gou Jian has shown that he doesn't discount the latter possibility).

the writer seemed to be doing (intentional) humour

Fully agree, especially in their exchanges with each other. (Sample:
FL (bowing deeply): Alas, Lord Wen Zhong, my condolences on your bereavement.
WZ: The bereavement is yours, rather! (translation: Bereavement my a**)
FL: Then why all the trappings of mourning? For your own appreciation?
WZ: I am in mourning for Yue!
FL (:D): Come, come, you are too wilful.
WZ: Oh, and weren't you the same when you ran off when you knew this would be a losing battle?
FL (spreads arms wide): Don't you lecture me, you really should know better than to display all these funereal ornaments!
WZ: Huh! I can hang whatever I please on my own gates; I haven't even gotten round to hanging them on the city gates yet.

it loses a lot in translation, but it's the best I can do)

Shi Mai and his daughter arm-wrestling to see who can cut their throat first

the scriptwriter has a lot to answer for >_

[flemmings]

it loses a lot in translation, but it's the best I can do

Thank you. All I got from the subtitles was that something witty was being lost in translation.

the scriptwriter has a lot to answer for

Maybe why they fired him? Not that 21-40 looks any better to me, Feather Recitation apart. In fact, the death of Yu Yi... oh don't get me started.

I think I blame the actors. Ge Zhijun and Lu Guanting just like to chew the scenery. Chen Daoming can put a blade to *his* throat without looking melodramatic in the least.

[feliciter]

You're welcome ^^
(oh dear, the subtitles were that bad? and they were being relatively informal compared to the rest of the political chuntering in the Yue court 0_o)

Ge Zhijun and Lu Guanting just like to chew the scenery.

That's true. But no one does (or doesn't do, as the case may be) anything quite like Uncle Ming ^_^

[flemmings]

oh dear, the subtitles were that bad

I suppose they conveyed the sense, but the writer in me was pained by the utter lack of style in which they did it. You could tell from literal sense + tone of voice that the lines should have been rendered a lot different from the chunterings of the Yue court, and they weren't.

But no one does (or doesn't do, as the case may be) anything quite like Uncle Ming

He never looks ridiculous doing anything, and when he comes close to doing it (conga-dancing, Feather Recitation) it looks intended. And whatever he's doing, his voice still rivets. Enviable.