Dream

[felephant]

I had a dream last night in which I kissed a girl who was surprised by how agreeable that was and so whose boyfriend I found myself. But it was a little more subtle than this, and I confess I'm a little proud of my dreaming self's psychological acuity. When I kissed her, she didn't just reciprocate; I felt with my lips that hers clenched in

Comments

[ideealisme]

They say that we go around as a half-being waiting for that ideal person to make our other half. By "they" I think I mean Plato, but you can correct me if I'm wrong! So it is a marriage of two souls and a healing and harmonising of one. That is why the profoundest and most powerful of passions come from the feeling that the beloved is a missing piece of the self.

[felephant]

It is indeed Plato, the Symposium. At the drinking party which is the symposium, Socrates tells the story about the dawn of man and of love. We were once man and female together but were broken apart by the gods for becoming too powerful, and now, as you say, we live longing and searching for our other half from whom we have been clove.

[ideealisme]

Which is odd because Socrates spent a lot of time praising homosexual love too.

[felephant]

Now don't quote me on this, but my understanding is that though the Greeks did indeed invent gayness, gay and straight relationships operated in very different ways. Gay relationships were between a master and a student, e.g., Socrates and Plato, and was about education and mentorship and so on. Straight relationships were, relatively speaking, between equals, and were about marriage and children and financial security and all that. It might be that the two-halves together thing only really took place between men and women (because of the smaller age discrepancy) and so that's why Socrates says what he does. This is all pretty speculative mind!

Though what it does remind me of is the general truth that the gay/straight dichotomy only exists in certain cultures such as ours. It's anachronistic, for instance, to call Michelangelo gay. I'd love to know more about this actually.

[ideealisme]

It reminds me of an acronym I recently discovered - MSM - men who have sex with men. They're not gay, don't ever call them that, just "men who have sex with men". I'm curious to know if that's a product of cultural repression or whether it's an attempt to be de facto gay but not be shackled to a perceived "identity"

[felephant]

Ha! http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/straight-men-to-have-casual-sex-with-each-other-2013112881537

[ext_2623341]

Watch as I swoop in and say some things

[felephant]

Hi Bren! I had no idea you would see this. But cool. I thought Socrates was the speaker for this story, but yeah, Wikipedia is on your side. And anyway, yeah of course it is Plato who's really saying this, even if Aristophanes inspired him in some way.

[fingersweep]

Not sure if you've read the letter (25 Jan. 1854) from Wagner to Roeckel (he'd been reading the Symposium): "Now a human being is both man and woman, and it is only when these two are united that the real human being exists... It is only in the union of man and woman, by love (sensuous and supersensuous) that the human being exists."

As a side note, Melville's poem "After the Pleasure Party" (the Symposium) always reminds me of the Siegmund/Sieglinde meet-up, where the theme of renunciation comes back again as reaffirmation, recognition.

[felephant]

I've only ever seen Das Rheingold, but if I see the rest of the Ring I'll be sure to keep an eye out for that theme. It is indeed I think rich and beautiful.

Incidentally, I saw Das Rheingold under Barenboim in a concert performance in the Albert Hall as a prom. I queued for hours in sweltering heat in order to get a £5 standing ticket. For three and a half hours I stood, and I felt pretty hardcore till I looked around and saw men in their sixties standing alongside me, and men who I strongly suspect were going to be at the rest of the Ring concerts the subsequent nights. I was duly humbled.