Wal-Mart

[fclbrokle]

On my way up to teach at UChicago's Splash, I was asked to stop in at a Wal-Mart to pick up some tape. After asking if there was anything else, I was asked to pick up some origami paper. I got the tape, and I failed to get the origami paper. That's the short version. The long version is how much I learned in the process

Comments

[meep]

It helps to have a wide variety of relatives, if you can swing it

[fclbrokle]

Yeah, my closest relatives outside of my two parents and one living grandmother is something like my third cousin twice removed in Paris. Who teaches at a university.

Ditto your other paragraphs. It's amazing how hard it is to break outside of your own sphere. But I'll do you one better: my parents don't think it's possible to find a good job without a Ph.D.

[meep]

I've seen comparisons of salaries for those with PhDs vs. masters vs bachelors, and PhD usually doesn't fare that well, but that's probably due to the more narrow range of possibilities "acceptable" to a PhD-holder compared to a person with a masters degree (as well, I'm wondering if they're including the MBAs in there.... as MBAs tend to make more than someone with a PhD in comparative literature.) It's a matter of taste, though. Academic life didn't suit me, and I'd rather make money, as an example. Lots of ex-math grad students in the actuarial world (some even with PhDs.... which nobody gives a damn about in the actuarial world

[isomorphisms]

It may shock them to find out that only 20% or so of the population has bachelors degrees, and that many of the 80% of adults without can do very well in their lives.

Yeah, less so now than a generation ago, however, largely as a result of the credentialing arms race we've talked about before. I was chatting with a friend last night, who mentioned that his father is illiterate - not "he's not much for reading", but he actually can't make any sense of text. He worked as a truck driver and managed to support a wife and eight children on his salary, but with his lack credentials, he wouldn't be employed as a driver today.

[fclbrokle]

It feels like education is becoming some kind of incredibly long standardized test. If you're willing to stick with it through an associates/bachelors degree, then you get access to a job even though the degree itself wasn't effective preparation for the job. It's not the learning itself, but rather your demonstrating of sticking with it and coping that somehow indicates your suitability.

[isomorphisms]

Yes, and when you couple that fact with general aimlessness on the parts of adolescents, an unstable economy, and an increasingly competitive job market, is it any wonder that so many students can't motivate themselves to go through the motions

[isomorphisms]

Oh, and what makes these baby boomers' contempt for "job training" even more contemptible: they all have jobs. And, for the most part, job security, at least more than our generation will ever see. And they came about those jobs fresh out of university (or fresh out of not going to university, as the case may be), knowing that they were well set up for what they wanted to do for a living. And then, oblivious to the changes that have occurred over the last 30 years, wonder why folks in our generation might be looking at alternative means to achieve the same sort of lifestyle that they have.

[meep]

Doesn't seem to me that a lot of those boomers learned for the sake of learning while in college themselves. I highly doubt any of those people... except for the ones who never left university (i.e. the profs)... had much higher-minded aims than the current crop of college students.

[isomorphisms]

That's the thing; however, when the boomers were in college, simply taking their courses, which they called "learning for the sake of learning" was enough to get them set for life. The same path doesn't get our generation there.

[meep]

There's a big difference between illiterate and not having a college degree, as well you know. Truck drivers do not require college degrees even today (though they do require a commercial drivers license...which does not require a college degree. There's no bachelors in truck driving, last time I checked).

There are plenty of relevant, non-college-related credentials, like the CDL mentioned above. Trying to get everyone of at least normal intelligence to have functional literacy and math is good, but not exactly a college-level endeavor.

[meep]

Looks like one need not even have a high school diploma or GED to get a CDL, after reading further.

[isomorphisms]

In general, you need more credentials to get the same jobs that didn't require many,if any credentials a generation ago.

Is there a written test for a CDL? If so, my friend's father would have failed it. Not that I'm yearning for the good old days when no one needed to know how to read, just stating that there's a pragmatic reason that folks are pushed to go to college.

[isomorphisms]

Pragmatic != good, of course.

[meep]

Oh, I know why people are pushed into going to college. But a lot of those people will never get a diploma, and nothing for their efforts except some debt. For many people, time would be better spent actually working a job, or getting credentials such as a CDL. There's not going to be >50% with a college degree without making it as meaningless as a high school diploma.