I'm just saying that their post would have been valid if they had used the proper term. Calling him misogynist doesn't hold any water, whereas calling him sexist possibly does.
Sexism is an all-encompassing term for discrimination against a specific gender or sex. It can refer to anything from believing one sex is inferior to/less competent than/less valuable than the other, to stereotypes of either sex.
Misogyny is a specific kind of sexism, and is an outright hatred or contempt for women.
Tony Stark's brand of sexism is mainly being chauvinistic and sleeping around. He doesn't hate women nor hold contempt towards them, thus he is not misogynist.
I don't think it's quite as cut-and-dried as all that. Misogyny isn't always so blatant. Hatred doesn't have to be "outright" to exist or influence someone's thoughts and actions. Sexist behavior and beliefs can indicate a contempt for women that may not be conscious or obvious.
Believing that women and inferior, less competent, or less valuable is a type of contempt (which is defined as the belief that something is inferior or without worth). You mentioned chauvinism, which refers to the belief that men are superior to women. And belief of superiority is a type of contempt.
I do agree that it's possible for someone to be sexist without being misogynist, but I think that's mostly in the case of more guileless stereotypes. Like, say, the idea that all women love sappy movies and "chick flicks." Which isn't true, obviously, but is much less malicious than a belief that women are stupider or less capable than men.
I was mostly going by definition. Of course, there will be shades of gray, and you bring up valid points. While the two terms are closely connected, I don't think they're interchangeable, but I think we both agree on that one. Someone can be sexist without being a misogynist or a misandrist, but someone can't be a misogynist or misandrist without being sexist. I just see misogyny as a closely related branch of sexism, while casual sexism like stereotypes is part of a lesser branch, although some stereotypes can be used to fuel misogynist tendencies ("no woman can ever be lonely, it's always easier for a woman to form relationships," etc.). It's all such a tangled web, really.
I just don't see Tony Stark's motives as being misogynistic. He sleeps with a lot of women to reclaim the sense of masculinity he lost when he lost his autonomy for invention. He acts like a playboy to feel like more of a man. I don't think it's out of contempt for women, it's moreso him grappling with his sense of masculinity.
I think Tony Stark's actions could be interpreted as misogynistic, although his motives probably aren't. Using women to reclaim a sense of masculinity is objectifying in the sense that it implies women can be used (sexually or otherwise) for a man's own purposes. It's definitely not blatant contempt, but I don't think it's outrageous to view his actions as subtly or unconsciously misogynistic.
Granted, Tony Stark is written as pretty arrogant in dealing with both men and women. So it could be said that, at least in the beginning, he's got a generally contemptuous attitude toward everybody. But one of the major ways this is demonstrated is through his interactions with female characters, and his "womanizing" tendencies. Since that is the way the writers chose to display that aspect of his character, whether intentional or not, it gives the character some misogynistic undertones
( ... )
I end up exceedingly late to fandom!secrets on most days, so I'm so happy you said this and even got the first comment! And major kudos in your comments below about the difference between the two.
I don't think he's a misogynist as much as "if you are going to ride my coat tails and play with my money, I'll do what ever I want with you." And he's like with both women AND men.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
I can't check that fact, that's why I'm using the word "maybe", which you do not.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Misogyny is a specific kind of sexism, and is an outright hatred or contempt for women.
Tony Stark's brand of sexism is mainly being chauvinistic and sleeping around. He doesn't hate women nor hold contempt towards them, thus he is not misogynist.
Reply
Believing that women and inferior, less competent, or less valuable is a type of contempt (which is defined as the belief that something is inferior or without worth). You mentioned chauvinism, which refers to the belief that men are superior to women. And belief of superiority is a type of contempt.
I do agree that it's possible for someone to be sexist without being misogynist, but I think that's mostly in the case of more guileless stereotypes. Like, say, the idea that all women love sappy movies and "chick flicks." Which isn't true, obviously, but is much less malicious than a belief that women are stupider or less capable than men.
Reply
I just don't see Tony Stark's motives as being misogynistic. He sleeps with a lot of women to reclaim the sense of masculinity he lost when he lost his autonomy for invention. He acts like a playboy to feel like more of a man. I don't think it's out of contempt for women, it's moreso him grappling with his sense of masculinity.
Reply
Granted, Tony Stark is written as pretty arrogant in dealing with both men and women. So it could be said that, at least in the beginning, he's got a generally contemptuous attitude toward everybody. But one of the major ways this is demonstrated is through his interactions with female characters, and his "womanizing" tendencies. Since that is the way the writers chose to display that aspect of his character, whether intentional or not, it gives the character some misogynistic undertones ( ... )
Reply
Reply
Reply
Agreed.
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment