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World Wars in the Media, Tuesday

Sep 08, 2009 12:09

"War," Mitchell started, once everyone had pooled into the class. "This week, we're not going to get to any of the good bits just yet, so buckle up. Rather, we're going to talk about the First World War, or as it was known in the early 20th century, the Great War, which began the cycle of conflicts that ravaged the century. It started rather ( Read more... )

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Talk to Mitchell chose_humanity September 8 2009, 10:13:20 UTC

Who is there, and drinking a glass of water. And looking more than averagely thoughtful. Honestly, he was looking forward more to next week's class than this one.

Re: Talk to Mitchell flowering_mind September 8 2009, 20:41:17 UTC

"Mitchell-san?" Too bad, it totally wasn't just Mitchell. "Do you have a moment?"

Re: Talk to Mitchell chose_humanity September 8 2009, 20:42:48 UTC

"Sure," Mitchell said, looking up from his glass. "Ino, right?"

Re: Talk to Mitchell flowering_mind September 8 2009, 20:48:22 UTC

"Most of the time," she said lightly. "Yeah, that's me. I just got a question from talking to Dinah and was wondering what your take on it was?" She rested one hand idly on her hips. "Like, 'bout that whole freedom of speech thing--what's the... point of it, come a war? Dinah said that the civilians have a say, but I don't really get it. I mean, things aren't going to be settled in a newspaper 'bout people saying 'I think this is bad' and 'no, you, this is bad', right?"

Re: Talk to Mitchell chose_humanity September 9 2009, 04:41:34 UTC

"That's what we call pressuring. Or something like that," Mitchell said, with a wry smile, "Again, I'm not an academic. A more famous example is another war-- Vietnam. So many civilians poured their support and their work into stopping the war that was going on that eventually, the government wound up caving, and left Vietnam with their heads hanging."

He shrugged. "That's the extreme example of it," he said, "Then there's just the fact that freedom of speech... is a big thing. Life goes on while people are at war."

Re: Talk to Mitchell flowering_mind September 9 2009, 14:12:29 UTC

She considered that.

"But it's not-- " Give her a second. "It doesn't make sense," Ino said, "in a war, that's like listening to the grocer telling you what to do. The grocer doesn't know how battles're fought."

Re: Talk to Mitchell chose_humanity September 9 2009, 14:34:16 UTC

"But they're not talking about how the wars are fought," Mitchell said - he might have gotten a bit into this argument, for reasons he wasn't going to reveal - "They're talking about why. Governments are supposed to represent their people. The grocer is one of the people. If it's just a couple of people shouting about it, you're fine - but everything else depends on whether the people even support your war. If they don't feel it's just, or your reasons are sound..."

Re: Talk to Mitchell flowering_mind September 9 2009, 15:10:50 UTC

"Doesn't that go both ways, though?" Ino asked. "People are supposed to trust their Government even if they can't see the exact purpose at that minute."

Re: Talk to Mitchell chose_humanity September 9 2009, 15:16:40 UTC

"In an ideal world, maybe," Mitchell said, shrugging. Yeaaah. "In reality, the government's full of plonkers, and it's our duty as people to make sure it doesn't get out of hand. If we can manage it."

Re: Talk to Mitchell flowering_mind September 9 2009, 15:22:28 UTC

"Dinah said you guys tend to elect your leaders," she noted, "which, in effect, makes it everyone's fault that the government sucks. Seems a bit... dim... to turn around and blame them for sucking when they only got there 'cause people sucked worse."

Re: Talk to Mitchell chose_humanity September 9 2009, 15:28:39 UTC

"Ah, democracy," he said, patting his pockets for his cigarettes. Mostly just to make sure they were there; he wasn't lighting anything in front of a student. "The pervasive myth that if enough people say 'Yes' it'll make the idea less stupid. Political parties base their campaigns on lies a lot of the time; if an elected official decides to bomb the entire country for the greater good, are we supposed to stand and wallow in our collective failure to predict the future?"

Re: Talk to Mitchell flowering_mind September 9 2009, 15:30:15 UTC

"Maybe it is for the greater good," she pointed out. "You can't predict the future there too."

And, you know, the fact that Ino didn't see that as being wrong...

Re: Talk to Mitchell chose_humanity September 9 2009, 15:31:28 UTC

"And ah, authoritarianism," he said, dryly. "The pervasive myth that one person among millions has all the right answers."

Re: Talk to Mitchell flowering_mind September 9 2009, 15:35:18 UTC

"No better than democracy," she insisted. "Because, if democracy gets idiots into office and then idiots do idiotic things because the general public of not-so-clever people believe their lies then who, really, is at fault? The public just wants a scape goat 'cause no way could they have ever been at fault oh no."

"At least when there's one person in charge, whether it be from a coup d'etat or a monarchy or something like that, you know who gets the blame."

Re: Talk to Mitchell chose_humanity September 9 2009, 15:37:39 UTC

"Because blaming people has done the future so much good," he said. "Freedom of speech doesn't mean you're saying 'I'm blameless, now listen to me' right off the bat; it could just as well be 'I elected this twat, and I was wrong. Now let's do something about it'."

Re: Talk to Mitchell flowering_mind September 9 2009, 16:00:51 UTC

"People blame people everyday," she pointed out. "Saying 'I was wrong' is anathema to most people. It's easier to blame."

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