thinky thoughts

[fanbeatsman]

So yesterday I stole forthwritten away from the LGBT conference that brought her back up north and awesome times were had, even if there was a disappointing lack of genitalia-shaped flora. BUT, while it was brilliant to see forthwritten again, and all the new people she introduced me to were lovely, I still found myself left with that bizarre feeling of alienation I get

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[fanbeatsman]

*nods* I hear you on a lot of this. I mean, one of the things that prompted this post was the fact that the space I was in at the weekend was actually pretty awesome in terms of not policing identity and being tolerant and sensitive (so I was wondering why I still felt alienated, you know?) - but I have to say, I do very often have a lot of issues with the way activism manifests. I think it's so, so easy for it to descend into blinkered-ness, smugness, patronising-ness (yay I am eloquent this morning ¬_¬), and not actually listening to what the people they're trying to help want or need. I mean, I am really, really far left - I'm the sort of lefty that centre-left people sidle away from and promise "we're not all like that" :D But I find identity politics incredibly alienating, and my understanding of sexuality isn't exactly a popular one in most queer rights discourse, and I always always always find myself wanting to complicate and qualify things :/ Idk. I know a lot of people who are incredible activists, really sophisticated thinkers and passionate writers who get how complicated and nuanced social issues can be. But I have also encountered a lot of smug wankers.

It does frustrate me that I'm not more at home in queer spaces, because although I don't feel particularly engaged with specific sexual identities I do very strongly identify as "not heterosexual", and I do get uncomfortable in super heteronormative environments. I'm happiest, I think, when I'm with close friends who are also queer, or at least strong allies - which, luckily, I have a lot of.

Also, this is a complete non-sequitur, BUT you wouldn't happen to have a long PW kinkmeme WIP on the go at the moment, would you? Because I had this sudden epiphany this morning as I was reading new fills that you may be responsible for a fic that I am avidly following, in which case, I am EVEN MORE GLAD I friended you :D

[aphephobia]

Ack! I somehow C&Ped part of a response to someone else's LJ into yours... my apology-- but yes, would LOVE to see your meta. Sorry about that.

think it's so, so easy for it to descend into blinkered-ness, smugness, patronising-ness (yay I am eloquent this morning ¬_¬), and not actually listening to what the people they're trying to help want or need.

YES. I, um, recently said goodbye to a "friend" who was a hardcore activist, who was "educating herself" and "unlearning" and then who posted a who LJ entry about her internalised classism issues and how she couldn't deal with uneducated people. (I dropped out of school at 14). When I pointed out that she was talking about me, she went into this self-righteous rage where she then decided to attack me (and a novel I'd done the first draft for) out of the blue. (If she'd just gone "Oh shit, I'm sorry, maybe I need to rethink what I just said," I'd have been cool. Instead, she attacked and then needed her smug activist wanker buddies to pat her on the back and congratulate her for unlearning... which they did.)

When I see shit like that, I want to scream-- for a lot of them, there's a real self-congratulatory element, and for others, they don't recognise the privilege in being able to do a lot of the activisty stuff they're on about. I feel for folks with physical disabilities who can't easily access some of the queer lounges... and for the working class people who won't even get to the universities where the queer lounges are, for example, but it seems like a lot of activists miss that stuff. (Or the socialist idiot workmate of mine who argued that women should be staying home being mothers so long as it was recognised as work. Um... okay...)

I'm happiest, I think, when I'm with close friends who are also queer, or at least strong allies - which, luckily, I have a lot of.

Me too.

And... I have a HEAP of stuff on the KM that I'm working on, so if one of mine is one of them, YAY, I'm glad you're enjoying it. (I know there are a few epic things in progress atm... who's in the fic you're following?)

[fanbeatsman]

Ohhh, I hear you. Classism is one of the things that I just want to scream about so so often in activist-y discussions (although it probably rings rather hollow, given that I've got a lot of class and educational privilege myself :/). I'm so sorry to hear that your friend was such an ass about it :( It's maddening when people think that navel-gazing about their privilege is all they have to do to gain activist points, instead of, you know, doing something about it and not hurting the people they're supposedly worried about. Yes, it's a helpful and necessary step to examine yourself and declare what your issues are, but it's not automatically cookie-time just because you've done it.

they don't recognise the privilege in being able to do a lot of the activisty stuff they're on about. I feel for folks with physical disabilities who can't easily access some of the queer lounges... and for the working class people who won't even get to the universities where the queer lounges are, for example, but it seems like a lot of activists miss that stuff.

Yes! forthwritten over on dreamwidth has just made a couple of awesome points about this that are full of more getting it than I can manage, so some people are doing something about it, at least. But yes, there is a lot of megafail in this respect.

It has Kristoph/Matt in it, and one of the best OCs in the fandom. Am I totally off-base?

[aphephobia]

I don't mind it when people who haven't experienced classism talk about it (because you sure as shit don't see workingclass people in positions to talk and be heard-- allies are a good thing, IMHO) just as long as it doesn't detract from the people who have experienced it. Another friend of mine said she was pissed off that a lot of activist types wanted to make "her story" all about the fact that she was a woman... or a lesbian... or a young mother... or a sex worker... when she said that they ignored the fact that classism was the biggest thing she was up against and usually the first thing people judged her with before they knew any of the rest of it.

(Icon comes from me headdesking after seeing too many posts in overheardinmelb about "let's make snide comments about poor people/people who live in particular suburbs [I lived in Mill Park for eight years, dammit; and I liked living there]," btw.)

It's maddening when people think that navel-gazing about their privilege is all they have to do to gain activist points, instead of, you know, doing something about it and not hurting the people they're supposedly worried about. Yes, it's a helpful and necessary step to examine yourself and declare what your issues are, but it's not automatically cookie-time just because you've done it.

YES! I love responding to that sort of self-congratulatory back-patting with, "Congratulations, you're trying to be a decent human being; here's your gold sticker star, now go do something with it." >:D

I'm going to go have a look at this person's stuff, she sounds most awesome. :) Thankyou. EDIT: She's amazing. And she likes Peaches. Just... yes. I've had a bit of a read and I love her POV. :D

I do believe I know the fic you're referring to, and yes, you are correct in your assumption... and... thankyou very much. :) I'm glad you're enjoying it.