Day 24: Flist-created February Meme

[falafel_musings]

Day 24: Rant about your favorite Breaking Bad moment. janie_tangerine

Comments

[falafel_musings]

I think there is a mutual understanding between Walt and Jesse when he tells him, "he told me not to give up on family ... and I didn't". There can be no other meaning in that statement, and I think that Jesse gets that

Really? I don't read it that way at all. When Walt says "Never give up on family. And I didn't. I took his advice" I think Jesse takes that to mean Walt not giving up on Skyler and his kids. Also, the moment Walt says that he talked to Donald and they spoke about family, I think Jesse is just desperately wanting to hear something about Jane. I think the true meaning of Walt's words is completely missed by Jesse. At least that's always been my interpretation of that moment.

For so long, I held up those scenes as proof that Walt cares deeply for Jesse, that Walt's actions to save Jesse really stem from his love. But I can't really believe that anymore.

I still believe it in that moment. BrBa is a "study of change" and the Walt who makes this speech greatly transformed before the end of the show. I would agree that Walt's desire to save Jesse was tied in with a desire to save his own soul, so it was never a selfless love. I love your fucked up Russian dolls metaphor. It's kind of amazing how much Walt made Jesse's life unbearable while still insisting on keeping him alive.

how can he love Jesse, when he doesn't even know Jesse

This goes for all Walt's relationships really. There wasn't a single person Walt claimed to love that he didn't end up manipulating and abusing, right down to his infant daughter. But I do think Walt had a special love for Jesse simply because Jesse was the person who was with Walt during that time when he felt "alive". In a sick way, I think part of Walt's reason for saving Jesse came from Walt's desire to leave someone behind who was a witness to all his Heisenberg adventures.

[hollywoodlawn]

Really? I don't read it that way at all. When Walt says "Never give up on family. And I didn't. I took his advice" I think Jesse takes that to mean Walt not giving up on Skyler and his kids.

Perhaps. I've certainly had different interpretations based on how many times I've watched the scene. It started out as questionable, but by the 15th time, I see something in the way Walt implores Jesse to understand what he's saying, without having to really say it, and there's something recipricatory (lol, is that a word?) in Aaron Paul's expression right then, like Jesse has a fleeting moment of understanding. But, like I said, it gets dashed to bits later on, and I'm sure Jesse never feels it again.

OMG, just thinking about them .... sigh. It hurts. No wonder I don't want to write anything with Walt. Hell, I prefer writing Todd to Walt.

Fucking Walt.

[waltzmatildah]

When Walt says "Never give up on family. And I didn't. I took his advice" I think Jesse takes that to mean Walt not giving up on Skyler and his kids. That's how I've always interpreted that scene also. If for no other reason than because I truly believe that Jesse didn't have the self-esteem required to ever think Walt could be including him in his definition of 'family'. In this instance, what Walt means (or thinks he means) is beside the point when it comes to how that affects Jesse. If that makes sense...

[hollywoodlawn]

Yeah, I get that, too, that Jesse wouldn't automatically think that he was important enough to Walt to be considered as such. But the very fact that Walt pinpoints this discussion as happening on the very night that Jane died, the night that he and Jesse almost parted ways, and the way he imbued the words with such meaning to Jesse, I feel like some of that had to get through -- that on an almost unconscious level, Jesse has that understanding that he's been included in the ranks. Because, really, when was Walt ever considering on giving up on Skyler and the kids? This all precedes the 'perfect moment' speech, so I feel like there's only one person that Walt could really be referring to, if Jesse had actually considered what transpired between them that night.

The very next morning after Jesse finds Jane dead, the first person he calls is Walt. And Walt pulled through for Jesse. Wouldn't that action, in a way, be considered, not giving up on someone?

Anyway, I am definitely willing to admit that multiple, multiple viewings of that scene could have had me projecting at various moments.

[waltzmatildah]

Anyway, I am definitely willing to admit that multiple, multiple viewings of that scene could have had me projecting at various moments. Haha, yep, me too!! That goes for most of the opinions I have of this show, tbqh!

And I definitely wasn't meaning that your interpretation is wrong. Not at all. Just that it wasn't (and never really has been) mine. And it's one of the things I've loved about this show and that has lead me to step back from a number of 'discussions' on it. I've come across a number of people who truly believe the show was trying to tell us something concrete the whole time. And that it was making black and white judgments and definitive statements and that it can't possibly be viewed in any other way. And I disagree with that notion SO MUCH.

So, yeah, I hear you. And I totally respect your interpretation here... even if it's not one I necessarily agree with.

[falafel_musings]

I think from Jesse's perspective, Walt not giving up on family would seem to refer to him not giving up after Skyler kicked him out of the house. Of course, that happened some two months after Walt's drink with Donald but Jesse would have no idea when exactly Walt's marriage fell apart. Jesse only knew that when he came out of rehab Walt's main focus was getting Skyler back.

Jesse didn't know that Walt returned to his bedside that night. As far as Jesse knew Walt only came back when Jesse called him distraught and begging for help. I think that Jesse feels that he and Walt have an obligation to each other as 'partners' and that includes protecting each other's lives. But Jesse could also perceive Walt's 'caring' as protecting his own ass, because if Jesse had been arrested and investigated after Jane's death then it could have led back to Walt. And of course, even after Walt put him through rehab he went onto reject Jesse and cut him out of doing business with Gus. Every time Jesse might start to think Walt cares, Walt does something spiteful and abusive.

Not to deny your reading, of course. It just surprised me because I read the scene so differently and think Jesse is totally oblivious to Walt seeing him as family.

[hollywoodlawn]

Well, as I mentioned to waltzmatildah, the amount of times I've watched that scene certainly has some bearing on the interpretation. What I saw in that scene the first time, I don't see any more, and then watching it again after subsequent seasons have aired has only colored that moment. I see more than my initial reading, but repeated, obsessive watchings will have that effect.

Jesse didn't know that Walt returned to his bedside that night.

Oh, I didn't suggest he was aware of it. I was referencing the argument they had at the door, the fact that Jesse knew he had disappointed Walt, felt a little shitty about it, but was probably also aware that he made a choice -- and he chose Jane. Then months later, Walt is telling him that he met Jane's dad in a bar that night, after he gave them the money, and the message that he took away from that meeting was not to give up on family. And what Jesse DOES know is that Walt didn't give up on Jesse, but came back for him and put him in rehab.

Anyway, as I also mentioned, it's the type of thing that Jesse might have been unable to acknowledge out in the open, but that he might have felt on a deeper level. I feel like that's why the betrayals hurt so much more -- because at certain points, Jesse DOES start to feel like Walt regards him as someone important in his life, and to keep discovering time and again that those feelings were bullshit is the ultimate rejection.

I'm not trying to argue that your reading is wrong, just trying to defend mine. I mean, yes, it has been imbued by many feelings that developed after Fly aired, but ... it's almost impossible to see the show the same way from that first viewing.