Grrr. LJ has been eating a lot of my comments too lately. I'm reduced to coping every comment just in case my posting fails. Thanks for rewriting though. :)
I like your taking in the father/son relationship, because that can be read in terms of power relationships too.
I've found some BB fans really object the father/son reading because Walt is eeeevil and it's so unhealthy, yada yada. But it's worth acknowledging that some paternal bonds are abusive and as you say, that is rooted in abuse of power.
it connects very well with jesse's constant identification with child characters, as you mentioned above. For as long as he remains wanting/needing a parental/authoritative figure, he remains that teenager, *happy sigh* This is what makes Jesse the character I always wanted Charlie Pace to be back in my Lost fandom days. In my fic I'd always write Charlie like a teenager because I think if a person gets into abusing drugs in their teen years they fail to grow up and depend on other people for guidance. Jesse's over identification
( ... )
Aside: Claire Danes is amazing in it. She really is; she portrays so well the *intensity* that drives Carrie Mathison - the effects of her sporadic ingestion of pills that she keeps "off book" from everyone - even the way she blatantly uses sex to get what she wants from Brody. Give her another decade, and she'll be the most ruthless chesssmaster ever to walk the halls of an intelligence agency.
"He's my partner. And if he doesn't go, I don't go."
That really sums it up. At the core, Walter and Jesse are bound almost irrevocably and permanently. And this show really makes you feel sorry for Jesse, the way he ends up in the blue shit as a metaphor for the way the universe seems to love to open up and just dump crap all over the kid.
"Abusive teaching" - I like that. Very apt! Walt really does adopt a blustery, bullying teaching method with Jesse, but it's telling how codependent and into each other's heads they are that when Walt has half a chance to get rid of Gale, he replaces him with Jesse.
And Jesse groks the cook. He groks it so well that when Gus has to begin his chess endgame with the cartel, his prize cook, Jesse, can come in at 96%.
That's the ultimate vindication for this uneducated loser of a kid whose sole redeeming qualities are his big heart and a long-latent drive to improve himself.
1) What is your favourite Walt/Jesse scene of the first half of S2?
Not having re-watched this one yet, I'm harder-put to recall it. But I think if I had to place it, I'd say the blowfish moment. Walter is really good at boosting Jesse's ego ("moment of the rest of your life" talk!) when he needs it to serve some greater objective.
2) Is it appropriate to say Walt/Jesse have a father/son bond considering how abusive this relationship is?
They do have one. Jesse almost never seems to truly take initiative, even when it seems like he does. He always asks "Mr. White" to cook with him, never to cook on his own. And even when Jesse knows he needs to start executing people to boost his reputation, he can't do it and needs Walter to puff his ego up.
In doing so, he becomes an extension of Walter's will without really realizing it, and in the most profound way when Walt orders Gale's execution, and Jesse robotically follows those orders.
In doing so, he becomes an extension of Walter's will without really realizing it, and in the most profound way when Walt orders Gale's execution, and Jesse robotically follows those orders. YESSSSSSSSS. This is such an eloquent explanation of what happens in that scene and the scenes leading up to it.
I agree with waltz. That is such a chillingly accurate description of Jesse shooting Gale. Along with robotic, it seemed like a Pavlovian response to Walt's months of careful conditioning. Walt's "do it, Jesse, do it!" even sounds like he's talking to a well-trained dog. Man, I can't wait to recap part 2 of S3.
So Walt and Jesse spend an entire night locked in a trunk together. It's ordeals like this that feed so much into Walt and Jesse's codependant relationship.
I'm no psychologist but I would tend believe that people who suffer traumatic events together might be prone to create unnatural (or even perhaps artificial?) bonds quickly.
Walt's "if he doesn't go, I don't go" is the first example of the long held pact between Walt and Jesse to protect each other from harm, even if taking a stand for their partner might result in them both being killed.
I like that they never talked about it... it's a silent pact and it's just something that happened naturally without any form of 'formal' acknowledgement. It's just the way it is.
Hank also knows that Jesse is lying about his car being stolen, though he doesn't think a little dipshit like Jesse is capable of shooting Tuco, so he demands to know the identity of Jesse's badass boss, never considering that Jesse's boss could be Walter White, the guy who was
( ... )
Again, holy crap, Falafel, this is A THING OF BEAUTY. You're making me SO BADLY want to rewatch all the episodes, but my DVDs are currently out being used to convert the masses [aka: I've lent them to a friend!!]. MUST GET THEM BACK
( ... )
I am so going to be reccing the shit out of these posts, btw. As long as you don't mind.
Oh please do. I'm still fairly new to BB fandom so I'm still seeking fellow BB fans and would love more people to come and reflect on the Walt/Jesse story in obsessive detail with me. Part of the reason I'm doing this recap is because it's the sort of meta that I - as a fan - go looking for online. I hope other BB fans would be pleased to find and follow these posts.
the abuse part... well, it's not like father/son relationships and abuse are AT ALL mutually exclusive, in fact, I think the abuse really only cements the dynamic for me. Especially when taken in context of Jesse's abandonment by his own parents. Yes, I know that paternal bonds and abusive relationships can easily go together. I was thinking of a recent interview with some of the cast at comic-con where Paul and Odenkirk were talking about Walt seeing Jesse as a son and Jonathan Banks objecting with "What kind of broken home are you people from?!" But that's the truth of it. Walt
( ... )
This! Vince Gilligan said, "Jesse is a leader who thinks he's a follower."
Yes, totally. It's a great irony in the 'Grilled' episode that Walt sneers at Jesse's "crack him over the head and then go for his gun!" plan and then that's exactly how Jesse defeats Tuco. Walt can often over-think their escape plans. Sometimes you just have to get scrappy to survive.
Glad you're enjoying the essays! I should be posting more BrBa fic soon too.
Comments 43
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I like your taking in the father/son relationship, because that can be read in terms of power relationships too.
I've found some BB fans really object the father/son reading because Walt is eeeevil and it's so unhealthy, yada yada. But it's worth acknowledging that some paternal bonds are abusive and as you say, that is rooted in abuse of power.
it connects very well with jesse's constant identification with child characters, as you mentioned above. For as long as he remains wanting/needing a parental/authoritative figure, he remains that teenager, *happy sigh* This is what makes Jesse the character I always wanted Charlie Pace to be back in my Lost fandom days. In my fic I'd always write Charlie like a teenager because I think if a person gets into abusing drugs in their teen years they fail to grow up and depend on other people for guidance. Jesse's over identification ( ... )
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(The comment has been removed)
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That really sums it up. At the core, Walter and Jesse are bound almost irrevocably and permanently. And this show really makes you feel sorry for Jesse, the way he ends up in the blue shit as a metaphor for the way the universe seems to love to open up and just dump crap all over the kid.
"Abusive teaching" - I like that. Very apt! Walt really does adopt a blustery, bullying teaching method with Jesse, but it's telling how codependent and into each other's heads they are that when Walt has half a chance to get rid of Gale, he replaces him with Jesse.
And Jesse groks the cook. He groks it so well that when Gus has to begin his chess endgame with the cartel, his prize cook, Jesse, can come in at 96%.
That's the ultimate vindication for this uneducated loser of a kid whose sole redeeming qualities are his big heart and a long-latent drive to improve himself.
Reply
Not having re-watched this one yet, I'm harder-put to recall it. But I think if I had to place it, I'd say the blowfish moment. Walter is really good at boosting Jesse's ego ("moment of the rest of your life" talk!) when he needs it to serve some greater objective.
2) Is it appropriate to say Walt/Jesse have a father/son bond considering how abusive this relationship is?
They do have one. Jesse almost never seems to truly take initiative, even when it seems like he does. He always asks "Mr. White" to cook with him, never to cook on his own. And even when Jesse knows he needs to start executing people to boost his reputation, he can't do it and needs Walter to puff his ego up.
In doing so, he becomes an extension of Walter's will without really realizing it, and in the most profound way when Walt orders Gale's execution, and Jesse robotically follows those orders.
Reply
Reply
Reply
So Walt and Jesse spend an entire night locked in a trunk together. It's ordeals like this that feed so much into Walt and Jesse's codependant relationship.
I'm no psychologist but I would tend believe that people who suffer traumatic events together might be prone to create unnatural (or even perhaps artificial?) bonds quickly.
Walt's "if he doesn't go, I don't go" is the first example of the long held pact between Walt and Jesse to protect each other from harm, even if taking a stand for their partner might result in them both being killed.
I like that they never talked about it... it's a silent pact and it's just something that happened naturally without any form of 'formal' acknowledgement. It's just the way it is.
Hank also knows that Jesse is lying about his car being stolen, though he doesn't think a little dipshit like Jesse is capable of shooting Tuco, so he demands to know the identity of Jesse's badass boss, never considering that Jesse's boss could be Walter White, the guy who was ( ... )
Reply
This is what I just commented with:
well, it's not like father/son relationships and abuse are AT ALL mutually exclusive...
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Have this to make you feel better:
( ... )
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Reply
Oh please do. I'm still fairly new to BB fandom so I'm still seeking fellow BB fans and would love more people to come and reflect on the Walt/Jesse story in obsessive detail with me. Part of the reason I'm doing this recap is because it's the sort of meta that I - as a fan - go looking for online. I hope other BB fans would be pleased to find and follow these posts.
the abuse part... well, it's not like father/son relationships and abuse are AT ALL mutually exclusive, in fact, I think the abuse really only cements the dynamic for me. Especially when taken in context of Jesse's abandonment by his own parents. Yes, I know that paternal bonds and abusive relationships can easily go together. I was thinking of a recent interview with some of the cast at comic-con where Paul and Odenkirk were talking about Walt seeing Jesse as a son and Jonathan Banks objecting with "What kind of broken home are you people from?!" But that's the truth of it. Walt ( ... )
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Yes, totally. It's a great irony in the 'Grilled' episode that Walt sneers at Jesse's "crack him over the head and then go for his gun!" plan and then that's exactly how Jesse defeats Tuco. Walt can often over-think their escape plans. Sometimes you just have to get scrappy to survive.
Glad you're enjoying the essays! I should be posting more BrBa fic soon too.
Reply
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