Oh my God, you're right - that banner is BADASS. ;)
I sort of knew that this was today's topic, hours before I actually swung by to check it out. And I've been thinking about what I could say on it. Once again, I'm sure it's worth approximately one (1) hill of beans, but y'know, when has that ever stopped me? ;)
It's a laugh to think that church and state have EVER been separate in politics or government. Sway, you're totally right in that the country was founded and established by mostly religious, (Christian) God-fearing men. Hell, several fellows in Congress absolutely REFUSED to sign the Declaration until Jefferson allowed the phrase "divine providence" to be added. It's a wonderful thing that we have freedom to worship, believe and have faith in a higher power of your choice here. It's equally cool that we have the freedom to not worship, not believe and not have faith in any sort of theism. In a perfect world - or at least country - both these factions would feel equally represented by their government.
I realize I said some of this last town hall, so forgive any repetition. It's a certainty that one's faith/belief system will shape his/her actions as a lawmaker, and to a degree I think that's fine. After all, most of the basic tenets of Christianity (both Catholic and Protestant), Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc, are ones that help their followers establish a strong moral, ethical compass, which (hopefully!), in turn contributes to those in power making decisions/passing laws/establishing programs that benefit mankind as a whole (ideally, of course). I believe that this is the way in which the two (church and state), can coexist peacefully.
I'd like to go on, because I actually have a lot to say about this, but at this point my hurty, headachey brain isn't working so well, so I'm going to cut this one a bit short this session. Sorry 'bout that. :)
I agree, it is quite laughable to think that church/state have ever been, or will ever effectively be (for the purposes of equality and no judgement, that is) separate from each other.
And you're right in that there's generally no problem with one's religious views (or lack thereof, for that matter), shaping how they approach politics - after all, as we've all pointed out, it is kind of hard to fully separate the two. The problem is that using religious views to shape your own views on the world and what goes on it is fine for yourself and your immediate family that you may be raising or whatever.
But where I run into issues with it, and what really grinds my gears, is when people who believe every word -- and I'm basing my response on Catholicism/Christianity here, since that's what I have the most experience with, but any one would fit - of whatever Bible they happen to "subscribe" to (forgive the poor pun everyone) and then therefore automatically condemn others who do not. I mean, I'm sorry, but just because some book tells you that gays are bad or abortion is immoral DOES NOT mean other people share your views and you have no right to take away their rights to choose to be whatever they want just because your religion has convinced you to behave in certain ways. Does that make sense?
What I'm trying to say is that I don't "mind" - in theory - that people believe in their religions forcefully and wholeheartedly. What I mind is when they judge others who don't. What I mind is when religious views affect fundamental and basic human rights whether you're gay, straight, bi, purple, yellow, short, tall, fat, pro-life, or pro-choice. It shouldn't matter what "your" religion thinks of the above when it comes to public policy, laws, and rights. Unfortunately, it DOES, and well, I just think that kinda sucks for lack of a better way to put it.
B, you finished my thoughts almost exactly as I would've. Eh, 's a lie - you did it more eloquently. Thank you. It's like you know me super well or something. ;)
And now, my healing brain and I are off to bed. :)
I sort of knew that this was today's topic, hours before I actually swung by to check it out. And I've been thinking about what I could say on it. Once again, I'm sure it's worth approximately one (1) hill of beans, but y'know, when has that ever stopped me? ;)
It's a laugh to think that church and state have EVER been separate in politics or government. Sway, you're totally right in that the country was founded and established by mostly religious, (Christian) God-fearing men. Hell, several fellows in Congress absolutely REFUSED to sign the Declaration until Jefferson allowed the phrase "divine providence" to be added. It's a wonderful thing that we have freedom to worship, believe and have faith in a higher power of your choice here. It's equally cool that we have the freedom to not worship, not believe and not have faith in any sort of theism. In a perfect world - or at least country - both these factions would feel equally represented by their government.
I realize I said some of this last town hall, so forgive any repetition. It's a certainty that one's faith/belief system will shape his/her actions as a lawmaker, and to a degree I think that's fine. After all, most of the basic tenets of Christianity (both Catholic and Protestant), Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc, are ones that help their followers establish a strong moral, ethical compass, which (hopefully!), in turn contributes to those in power making decisions/passing laws/establishing programs that benefit mankind as a whole (ideally, of course). I believe that this is the way in which the two (church and state), can coexist peacefully.
I'd like to go on, because I actually have a lot to say about this, but at this point my hurty, headachey brain isn't working so well, so I'm going to cut this one a bit short this session. Sorry 'bout that. :)
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And you're right in that there's generally no problem with one's religious views (or lack thereof, for that matter), shaping how they approach politics - after all, as we've all pointed out, it is kind of hard to fully separate the two. The problem is that using religious views to shape your own views on the world and what goes on it is fine for yourself and your immediate family that you may be raising or whatever.
But where I run into issues with it, and what really grinds my gears, is when people who believe every word -- and I'm basing my response on Catholicism/Christianity here, since that's what I have the most experience with, but any one would fit - of whatever Bible they happen to "subscribe" to (forgive the poor pun everyone) and then therefore automatically condemn others who do not. I mean, I'm sorry, but just because some book tells you that gays are bad or abortion is immoral DOES NOT mean other people share your views and you have no right to take away their rights to choose to be whatever they want just because your religion has convinced you to behave in certain ways. Does that make sense?
What I'm trying to say is that I don't "mind" - in theory - that people believe in their religions forcefully and wholeheartedly. What I mind is when they judge others who don't. What I mind is when religious views affect fundamental and basic human rights whether you're gay, straight, bi, purple, yellow, short, tall, fat, pro-life, or pro-choice. It shouldn't matter what "your" religion thinks of the above when it comes to public policy, laws, and rights. Unfortunately, it DOES, and well, I just think that kinda sucks for lack of a better way to put it.
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And now, my healing brain and I are off to bed. :)
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