Mods like to take the weekend off sometimes too - FFA Post #307
Also, some mods are better at grammar than others. It may or may not be related to the weekend.
All the fail_fandomanon Rules and Information (and Ban Requests):
http://fail-fandomanon.livejournal.com/36692.html.
The short version: no embeds, don't out people's real names, don't be that much of an asshole, body fluids are off topic, Mods reserve the right to ( Read more... )
All the fail_fandomanon Rules and Information (and Ban Requests):
http://fail-fandomanon.livejournal.com/36692.html.
The short version: no embeds, don't out people's real names, don't be that much of an asshole, body fluids are off topic, Mods reserve the right to ( Read more... )
Plus, many of them tend to pick apart the things I do like, my individual stylistic choices, by insisting that the only way to Write Better is though catch-all rules like they just read Strunk&White in preparation for beta-ing. And that just makes me hate them. I ask, "Can you tell me if the transition here feels natural?" and they reply with, "You should get rid of some of those adjectives!" Or else, "Add some adverbs! This feels sparse!" Like they can't conceive that maybe I've already considered that stuff, and when I asked them a question about the transition, I wanted a response about the transition.
I just feel like we're talking at cross-purposes. And then I hate them for tearing through my story and not answering my questions, not suggesting things that would make me improve, just jumping on generic one-size-fits-all advice. I know part of this has to do with me. But I have never found a better way of effectively torpedoing a fandom friendship than taking someone on as a beta, and even though I want to improve, I've yet to find someone who gives a fuck about creating the kind of story I want to create, working within my chosen style to reach something that is constructed as well as written well.
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The beta I've found on meme haven't been that great tbh. I know that's probably going to ruffle some anon feathers here so I won't be specific. But just because both people use the same meme doesn't mean they'll be a good match.
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That's true but unless you know a way to guarantee a good match without a whole lot of communication first, why close doors? Especially when one of the OP's main problems is that they get fans of their writing to beta for them which generally leads to a lot of cheerleading and superficial SPAG fixes.
OP- have you ever tried any places specifically for finding betas? I had awesome luck matching myself to people on an LJ beta-finding comm but that was ages ago so I don't know any specific places now. Maybe other nonnies know some?
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I haven't, but I will look around, anon. Thank you!
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I've been terribly wary. IDK why. Partly it's because my fic is long and often multipart, so even asking to begin with feels like an imposition. And for the bigger fandom stuff, it's because I always have people chiming in to help, though, as said, they're not that helpful.
But I also write longfic lot of stuff in smaller or abandoned fandoms that never gets posted because I just don't think my editing abilities are up to snuff, and I can't help but think I have nothing to lose. Thanks, nonny.
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Sounds like the OP wants a beta and is getting copy editors. Not the same thing.
/copy editor
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Please, do not make me start this wank. Yes, language evolves, but the idea that there is no such thing as right or wrong in language pisses me off so much. Which groups are we drawing the descriptionist data from? When would you say the tipping point is? And how unclear and ambiguous can, for example, grammar unintentionally become because enough people believes the rules work in a certain way? I loath the idea that a language is just some form of art without any logical built instead of a system that actually sometimes needs to work certain ways to convey its intended meaning.
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That said, "right and wrong in language" is a wriggly concept, and the tipping point varies accordingly. I've written fic with sentence fragments in it, and I'll defend that stylistic choice. But I wouldn't let that go in copy that I was editing per Chicago style for a professional audience.
The OP of this thread seems to be able to communicate in English well enough. People tend, overall, to be a little more finicky about the SPaG in their fic than about the SPaG in their internet comments. So I'm inclined to trust them on their assertion that past betas have paid too much attention to the OP's SPaG and not enough to their structural issues.
Still, I probably should have suggested searching on "Geoff Pulliam Strunk & White" instead.
http://chronicle.com/article/50-Years-of-Stupid-Grammar/25497
Tl;dr: S&W is really just not that good of a guide. They were good writers, but they weren't good grammarians.
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I refuse to believe you are all NA at this point, because some of you are jumping in here faaaaaaaaaar too ready to start this wank.
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/anon who's too tired of the subject to discuss it and so shouldn't have vaguely sniped at op
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Copy editor anon agrees with you on this. It's a Wank That Never Ends.
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Yeaaaah, that's the impression I'm getting here.
Strunk and White isn't a bible for everything writing-related, granted. There are lots of style guides. But not all stylistic choices are good choices, either. If OP is consistently getting basic suggestions, there's a decent chance that their personal preferences are not solid. Things like constant passive voice, reliance on telling instead of showing, and such will ping people. I had a beta-ee once who flailed and whimpered at every epithet I deleted - every "his lover" and "the green-eyed man" I destroyed was just torture to them. When I started in on their floating and/or objectified body parts in porn (a hand brushed over that ass, those azure eyes widened at that cock WTF EVEN) they tried to tell me that was their style. Uh-huh. (Just examples, of course.)
It's difficult to beta for plotlines and things like that, yes, because as readers we're often prepared to let the writer take us where they want to go and maybe the betas are just going there with OP? I can spot plotholes and inconsistencies a mile away but I hesitate to point out things like character-voice issues unless they're egregious because those things are subjective.
Sorry it hasn't worked out for OP, and that all the work other people have been putting into their fics, probably for free, hasn't gotten them the professional edit they so clearly deserve.
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