Re: Whoops, this was me. Not Nisei :pexecharmoniousJune 25 2010, 23:08:03 UTC
For point 1: I get the feeling that a lot of the debate has occurred because queer/disabled/etc. fen have found fandom to be Their Last Refuge, and the place where they thought they could be accepted. And when they run up against the same ableist, etc. stuff that they see in the rest of their lives... well, I've heard people say things like "fandom used to be my happy place, and now it's not". So I think that's part of it.
Of course, the reason they pick fandom to try and effect change in rather than anywhere else is probably the reasons you say: it's a reasonably thoughtful space with a lot of leaning towards lengthy discussion and getting the results of that discussion spread around within its community. There's no other area where you can have quite so much of an effect.
For point 2: you make a good point. I think there's a line where it does become, "okay, I am letting this happen". Letting it interfere with your communication with someone, for example... if you really find you can't help staring at someone's chest instead of listening, you need to back off and cool down, yes. If you can help it but don't, that's just lousy. And I think very few people, if any, can't help it.
But if your first, kneejerk response to a scenario is "omigod that's hot"... I can understand that there are, obviously, some situations where you don't say it. You don't say it to the face of a person who's telling you a sob story, for example. (And in general, you should be paying attention to the story at that time and not to yourself.) But if you're expected to deny that reaction and focus on the kinder one at every turn, there's a part of yourself that's not getting expressed.
I think people who do this in most of their lives see fandom as the one place they can go where it's okay for them to finally put down that burden of social acceptability and go, "hey, actually, my first reaction is that it's hot", and be understood and not have to feel (as) ashamed.
Of course, the flipside is that people who spend most of their lives biting their tongues when it comes to ableist, etc. language, or shouting but not being heard, also come to fandom expecting it to be their last refuge. And... clash.
Of course, the reason they pick fandom to try and effect change in rather than anywhere else is probably the reasons you say: it's a reasonably thoughtful space with a lot of leaning towards lengthy discussion and getting the results of that discussion spread around within its community. There's no other area where you can have quite so much of an effect.
For point 2: you make a good point. I think there's a line where it does become, "okay, I am letting this happen". Letting it interfere with your communication with someone, for example... if you really find you can't help staring at someone's chest instead of listening, you need to back off and cool down, yes. If you can help it but don't, that's just lousy. And I think very few people, if any, can't help it.
But if your first, kneejerk response to a scenario is "omigod that's hot"... I can understand that there are, obviously, some situations where you don't say it. You don't say it to the face of a person who's telling you a sob story, for example. (And in general, you should be paying attention to the story at that time and not to yourself.) But if you're expected to deny that reaction and focus on the kinder one at every turn, there's a part of yourself that's not getting expressed.
I think people who do this in most of their lives see fandom as the one place they can go where it's okay for them to finally put down that burden of social acceptability and go, "hey, actually, my first reaction is that it's hot", and be understood and not have to feel (as) ashamed.
Of course, the flipside is that people who spend most of their lives biting their tongues when it comes to ableist, etc. language, or shouting but not being heard, also come to fandom expecting it to be their last refuge. And... clash.
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