Ah, see, for me weirdly I can actually see the appeal of S3 S/E all the way through? Partly because I actually did ship it right up to and including the Wickery Bridge business. And as many issues as I have with the total lack of fallout from that, I still had enough lingering feelings to understand the draw throughout the rest of the season, even though I personally couldn't and wouldn't ship it anymore.
Instead, I'm just all "GTFO Stefan." Also extremely valid.
And maybe the erasing of Elena's voice is part of that? Buffy's trauma is always on full display (even if she often blames herself for it). That is a very good point. The thing about Buffy/Angel on BtVS is that Buffy was always a more fleshed out character than Angel (who was mostly just a symbol), so his man pain never took away from her story. Not so with Stefan/Elena. Though I think Elena is and was well aware as to the extent of her victimization; she just refused to accept it? Continuing to fight for Stefan and their relationship, perversely, gave her (the illusion of having) more power than the opposite.
(Related: I feel like maybe one reason for our different reactions to B/A and S/E -- despite the similarities of the pairings -- might be how the two shows portrayed the heroine's feelings for the abusive bf? The thing that gets to me about late S3 / S4 S/E is that I don't even see any passion on Elena's part -- she's essentially going through the motions even though her heart's no longer in it. Which is just really hard to swallow. Whereas, with B/A, you can clearly see that no matter how ugly it got, Buffy was operating on sheer emotion. It was always about her, her feelings and desires. She held on to the relationship for herself, not for him. That's a huge distinction to me.)
Partly because I actually did ship it right up to and including the Wickery Bridge business.
Yeah, I've been lazy in calling it S3 S/E, because that's actually my breaking point. I didn't care one way or another about S/E until the show started showing signs that the writers knew S/E was not a fairy tale, so I did ship it in the beginning of S3. Post-Wickery Bridge, it's like, "obviously this is actually a nightmare, but we're going to pretend like it's a fairy tale anyway," which leads to your other point:
Related: I feel like maybe one reason for our different reactions to B/A and S/E -- despite the similarities of the pairings -- might be how the two shows portrayed the heroine's feelings for the abusive bf?
YES. I forgot to mention that, but I think it's hugely important, too. Because that's part of my confusion, like, WHY is Elena fighting so hard for this relationship that she doesn't even seem to want?* It's not romantic or even tragic, it's just masochistic.
*This is a rhetorical question, lol. Like I said above, I know her reasons why, I just don't ~get it on an emotional level.
Instead, I'm just all "GTFO Stefan."
Also extremely valid.
And maybe the erasing of Elena's voice is part of that? Buffy's trauma is always on full display (even if she often blames herself for it).
That is a very good point. The thing about Buffy/Angel on BtVS is that Buffy was always a more fleshed out character than Angel (who was mostly just a symbol), so his man pain never took away from her story. Not so with Stefan/Elena. Though I think Elena is and was well aware as to the extent of her victimization; she just refused to accept it? Continuing to fight for Stefan and their relationship, perversely, gave her (the illusion of having) more power than the opposite.
(Related: I feel like maybe one reason for our different reactions to B/A and S/E -- despite the similarities of the pairings -- might be how the two shows portrayed the heroine's feelings for the abusive bf? The thing that gets to me about late S3 / S4 S/E is that I don't even see any passion on Elena's part -- she's essentially going through the motions even though her heart's no longer in it. Which is just really hard to swallow. Whereas, with B/A, you can clearly see that no matter how ugly it got, Buffy was operating on sheer emotion. It was always about her, her feelings and desires. She held on to the relationship for herself, not for him. That's a huge distinction to me.)
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Yeah, I've been lazy in calling it S3 S/E, because that's actually my breaking point. I didn't care one way or another about S/E until the show started showing signs that the writers knew S/E was not a fairy tale, so I did ship it in the beginning of S3. Post-Wickery Bridge, it's like, "obviously this is actually a nightmare, but we're going to pretend like it's a fairy tale anyway," which leads to your other point:
Related: I feel like maybe one reason for our different reactions to B/A and S/E -- despite the similarities of the pairings -- might be how the two shows portrayed the heroine's feelings for the abusive bf?
YES. I forgot to mention that, but I think it's hugely important, too. Because that's part of my confusion, like, WHY is Elena fighting so hard for this relationship that she doesn't even seem to want?* It's not romantic or even tragic, it's just masochistic.
*This is a rhetorical question, lol. Like I said above, I know her reasons why, I just don't ~get it on an emotional level.
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