"Don't Worry, I'm going to Heaven!" Conclusions
Since my first post is running out of comment room, I thought I would recap. Here are the conclusions of the debate.
A) A god like the Christian god exists and everyone has and will always go to heaven.
B) A god(s) different than the Christian god exists.
C) No god(s) exist.
D) A god like the Christian god exists and is immune from all logic.
I, personally, hope it's option A. That would be pretty sweet.
Option D is quite strange, but I understand how one could believe it. If you think that is the correct conclusion, then you just believe in an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good god - NOT the Christian god. There is no way to comprehend ANY book that could be written or divined by such a god. So what makes you a member of that religion? Nothing.
If option D is correct, different religions are indistinguishable. Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and any others could all be equally verifiable.
For example, the idea that Jesus is the son of God is the central tenent of Christianity. The central tenent for Muslims is Muhammad. Both of these are only known because of their respective holy books. If you say that their god is immune from logic, then their holy books are immune from logic as well. If you say that they are being logical here, then how do you know? You don't. And the same goes for all the different rules in the holy books. So what makes you a Christian or a Muslim if your central tenent could be wrong for all you know?
I know what you are thinking. "You don't have to know! Just have faith". Alright, then what about this verse?
"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him...then all the men of his town shall stone him to death." Deut 21:18, 21
or
"Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says." Corinth. 14:34
Are these logical or illogical? Again, how do you know? You don't. Have faith?
"Hey, hey, hey! That could be a mistranslation!". Then why couldn't the Jesus or Muhammad things be a mistranslation? You are just making stuff up now. Unless you can verify that these rules were not in the original Bible, then calm down.
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Now, onto faith. The idea of faith is not smart at all. Here, I'll prove it.
There is a giant etheral Goomba about to squash you into oblivion. Are you running away? If so, you are dumb. If you didn't, then why not? Is it because you have no reason (evidence) to believe that a Goomba is about to squish you? Good job.
"But those are silly, mythologic beings! Of course, I don't believe them!". Then you just don't have faith do you? You think that faith is only good if it's applied to gods or something?
The same line of thinking can be applied to anything: Dragons, goblins, hobbits, the tooth fairy, Santa Clause, the Spagetti Monster, and even gods themselves because NONE of them have a shred of evidence for existing.
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Now, if you have come to the conclusion that God is logical when talking about Jesus or his laws that we agree with, but illogical on anything we don't agree with AND that faith in god is good, but not in anything else, then you are cherry picking. There is no getting through to you. You believe in the dogmatic principles instilled into you and there is nothing I can do or say to convince you otherwise. You no longer care if you are right or wrong, just that you believe for the sake of believing.
A) A god like the Christian god exists and everyone has and will always go to heaven.
B) A god(s) different than the Christian god exists.
C) No god(s) exist.
D) A god like the Christian god exists and is immune from all logic.
I, personally, hope it's option A. That would be pretty sweet.
Option D is quite strange, but I understand how one could believe it. If you think that is the correct conclusion, then you just believe in an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good god - NOT the Christian god. There is no way to comprehend ANY book that could be written or divined by such a god. So what makes you a member of that religion? Nothing.
If option D is correct, different religions are indistinguishable. Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and any others could all be equally verifiable.
For example, the idea that Jesus is the son of God is the central tenent of Christianity. The central tenent for Muslims is Muhammad. Both of these are only known because of their respective holy books. If you say that their god is immune from logic, then their holy books are immune from logic as well. If you say that they are being logical here, then how do you know? You don't. And the same goes for all the different rules in the holy books. So what makes you a Christian or a Muslim if your central tenent could be wrong for all you know?
I know what you are thinking. "You don't have to know! Just have faith". Alright, then what about this verse?
"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him...then all the men of his town shall stone him to death." Deut 21:18, 21
or
"Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says." Corinth. 14:34
Are these logical or illogical? Again, how do you know? You don't. Have faith?
"Hey, hey, hey! That could be a mistranslation!". Then why couldn't the Jesus or Muhammad things be a mistranslation? You are just making stuff up now. Unless you can verify that these rules were not in the original Bible, then calm down.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Now, onto faith. The idea of faith is not smart at all. Here, I'll prove it.
There is a giant etheral Goomba about to squash you into oblivion. Are you running away? If so, you are dumb. If you didn't, then why not? Is it because you have no reason (evidence) to believe that a Goomba is about to squish you? Good job.
"But those are silly, mythologic beings! Of course, I don't believe them!". Then you just don't have faith do you? You think that faith is only good if it's applied to gods or something?
The same line of thinking can be applied to anything: Dragons, goblins, hobbits, the tooth fairy, Santa Clause, the Spagetti Monster, and even gods themselves because NONE of them have a shred of evidence for existing.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, if you have come to the conclusion that God is logical when talking about Jesus or his laws that we agree with, but illogical on anything we don't agree with AND that faith in god is good, but not in anything else, then you are cherry picking. There is no getting through to you. You believe in the dogmatic principles instilled into you and there is nothing I can do or say to convince you otherwise. You no longer care if you are right or wrong, just that you believe for the sake of believing.