I've seen no reason to believe anything but that are an intellectually impoverished nation, politically, and otherwise.
Politics has become a dirty word, a cynics word, a word to signify corruption and futility.
It doesn't connote hope or even intelligent debate, it connotes what we have let it come to connote.
While I think there are benefits to promoting the overall vitality of the nation by promoting the intellectual and physical vitality of it's people through government assitance towards personal health and education, I think that any large organizations, as dependent as they are on so many people, will rise and fall with them, and their individual vitality.
Perhaps the issues we are encountering on a societal level will shake society from it's indulgent complacency, perhaps not. On a related note, I think that the popular media most people choose to entertain theirselves with carries negative messages (at least via omnipresent advertising) about what is valuable in life, implying a lifestyle of thoughtless instant gratification and an attitude of entitlement.
I've known many people to envy abusers of power, or give them intellectual and emotional authority only really because of their monetary or political authority.
The "American ideal" of individual freedom has two sides... on one side, the wholesome internal discourse regarding personal philosphy, self-determination, intellectual honesty on a personal level, and responsibility - have we forgotten responsibility? on the other hand, this idea of freedom implies an unwholesome proclivity to disregard the big picture, to feel superior to others, and to be selfish or impolite.
The idea of independence and freedom needs to be tempered with personal responsibility, accountability, and a holistic sense of the individual interacting with the community at large.
Anyway, as a general rule, people either change when they are forced to, or they don't.
I think we lack solidarity. But more than that, I think we lack direction in our lives. The image so often presented - and perhaps as often true, is that of a country of indulgent kings.
There is a strong tabboo about discussing negative aspects of our society that I think is more harmful than helpful. Our solidarity in this nation always came through dissent. If we are a democracy, we should be free to disagree, to assemble. Our attention has been turned away from intellectual dissent to anti-communist sentiment, anti-terrorist sentiment, we have been paralyzed with fear, and sheeplike, united against a common enemy - perceived, created, real, or otherwise.
I think many people are probably a little bit frightened of being deemed "unamerican" by fundamentalist extremists in the US who would call theirselves patriotic - oh they may be patriotic, but it's more pertinent to call them nationalists - unquestioning and half-crazed ones at that. We have defined patriotism in this country first with intellectual honesty and questioning authority. Then we defined patriotism with unision againt communists, unison against "anti-american sentiments" and unision against questioning our own government.
Rome was poisoned by lead, perhaps the US will succumb to processed food malnutrition and an indulgent lifestyle. It's scientifically true that good nutrition and exercise can increase intelligence - and vice versa, the lack decreases it. As consumers we as a whole may be the victims of our culture - and of course, our decisions.
Anyway, I'm going to stop rambling, there are alot of sides to this issue.
you don't know rambleerzulie_eardrumMarch 30 2009, 13:46:15 UTC
really good points--way too multifaceted an issue to duly serve in a brief comment(unless one could spend a year re-posting here--feel free, I'll probably be in another dimension).
there's a lot of water under the bridge--dissent regarding this matter should have happened years ago--it did among certain individuals--the others= ignorant or beneficiaries of the systemic crime--given the oligarchical/police state we live in, however it tries to masque itself--(god, this ain't gonna sound good)--but what could it really accomplish? lets say enough people were informed and enraged regarding socioeconomic inequality, civil rights abuses, being bamboozled and later were homeless, starving, ect...a critical mass of dissent...what would result? there was a vocal critical mass of dissent in september--accomplished nothing (except scare the sh*t out of the legislature requiring them to come up with much better lies--but they know who they are beholden to)--dissent mirroring france or greece? I see cops and neutralization--symbolic statements, no real change--mass revolt: I see brazil or pacification & re-absorption into a broken, inequitable system...maybe not--never know for sure--but governing masses is always problematic and never ideal--those who want a revolution better get ready for what comes after--anarchy is ideal, people aren't...though, libertarian socialism is probably the most just (but that's in accord with my views social justice--that said, I think my views are probably the most just:)
But on a less abstract, more practical level...people--be kind to your neighbor--if you have a little more than you need--pass it on--(the haves probably have due to an inherently fixed game)--I used to only have two dollars for food & I'd always give one to this guy playing a clarinet on a free-way offramp--and ate 99c miss debbie honey buns for the rest of the day and will probably die of heart disease before I'm 40...but that's probably a bad example--he most likely got to get high & play the clarinet--while I got layed off was still homeless and will never see my guitar out of storage again...and real estate developers in suv's got to pass us to pick up their slaves on oxnard & kester, contributing to this carnage...but he was my brother... giving/ameliorating suffering (even if its a projection--but usually not)...makes me feel better (i.e. not really bad)--must be how cutters feel--I just hand out cash and if i don't have any, feel depressed--- I do other stuff too...wonder about the nature of altruism...some say it's just an extension of self-interest-some say it's genetic to the degree that sociopath is--hmmm, there's a long line of unbelievably generous folks in my family that have absolutely nothing--born privileged and spread the wealth, though were impractical in certain ways essential to survival--but the point is, even if your on the titanic and going down, you can at least hold someones hand!
Re: you don't know rambleerzulie_eardrumMarch 30 2009, 13:49:42 UTC
and AIG executives et al should be hung in the public square...crimes against humanity!...revenge make some people feel better, it may be genetic--if only the enemy was so simple.
p.s. didn't mean to sound defeatist--dissent no matter what the outcome, is mandatory or should come naturally, given the circumstances--even if it's a construct one holds in their mind--in a way, rage is dissent not acted upon--so the seeds are there: 1) sheeple need a charismatic leader/highly organized structure and masses of other sheeple to get them off their hindquarters--we tend to "get rid of" or discredit those who have potential to be such or are gaining ground; 2) see- all the anti-labor legislation passed over the past 40 years & 3) the US is more a like a continent than country--in size, recources, industries, culture--the whole right/left thing perpetuated on talk radio (mind control 101--blast propaganda through loud speakers at all times--got fox when you get home) is very much about manipulating a fertile sector of dissent (like you mentioned)--they're being f*cked over as much as anyone--demographics are changing ...rush limbaugh is having an "extinction burst" :) everything's in a state of flux, but we are now at the center of the storm--so it's hard to see-- in chinese, crisis(weiji) does not mean danger or opportunity, it means "on a pivot"--given the global climate, things don't look good.
& we funneled grants to certain scientists, oh, because we wanted to know more about depression and help people--yeah right-->welcome to the pit of despair--not as fascinating as some of the mkultra stuff--but more "applicable" (hate that word)--apply...directly to the forehead.
Click to view
Politics has become a dirty word, a cynics word, a word to signify corruption and futility.
It doesn't connote hope or even intelligent debate, it connotes what we have let it come to connote.
While I think there are benefits to promoting the overall vitality of the nation by promoting the intellectual and physical vitality of it's people through government assitance towards personal health and education, I think that any large organizations, as dependent as they are on so many people, will rise and fall with them, and their individual vitality.
Perhaps the issues we are encountering on a societal level will shake society from it's indulgent complacency, perhaps not.
On a related note, I think that the popular media most people choose to entertain theirselves with carries negative messages (at least via omnipresent advertising) about what is valuable in life, implying a lifestyle of thoughtless instant gratification and an attitude of entitlement.
I've known many people to envy abusers of power, or give them intellectual and emotional authority only really because of their monetary or political authority.
The "American ideal" of individual freedom has two sides... on one side, the wholesome internal discourse regarding personal philosphy, self-determination, intellectual honesty on a personal level, and responsibility - have we forgotten responsibility?
on the other hand, this idea of freedom implies an unwholesome proclivity to disregard the big picture, to feel superior to others, and to be selfish or impolite.
The idea of independence and freedom needs to be tempered with personal responsibility, accountability, and a holistic sense of the individual interacting with the community at large.
Anyway, as a general rule, people either change when they are forced to, or they don't.
I think we lack solidarity. But more than that, I think we lack direction in our lives. The image so often presented - and perhaps as often true, is that of a country of indulgent kings.
There is a strong tabboo about discussing negative aspects of our society that I think is more harmful than helpful. Our solidarity in this nation always came through dissent. If we are a democracy, we should be free to disagree, to assemble.
Our attention has been turned away from intellectual dissent to anti-communist sentiment, anti-terrorist sentiment, we have been paralyzed with fear, and sheeplike, united against a common enemy - perceived, created, real, or otherwise.
I think many people are probably a little bit frightened of being deemed "unamerican" by fundamentalist extremists in the US who would call theirselves patriotic - oh they may be patriotic, but it's more pertinent to call them nationalists - unquestioning and half-crazed ones at that.
We have defined patriotism in this country first with intellectual honesty and questioning authority.
Then we defined patriotism with unision againt communists, unison against "anti-american sentiments" and unision against questioning our own government.
Rome was poisoned by lead, perhaps the US will succumb to processed food malnutrition and an indulgent lifestyle. It's scientifically true that good nutrition and exercise can increase intelligence - and vice versa, the lack decreases it. As consumers we as a whole may be the victims of our culture - and of course, our decisions.
Anyway, I'm going to stop rambling, there are alot of sides to this issue.
Reply
brb
Reply
there's a lot of water under the bridge--dissent regarding this matter should have happened years ago--it did among certain individuals--the others= ignorant or beneficiaries of the systemic crime--given the oligarchical/police state we live in, however it tries to masque itself--(god, this ain't gonna sound good)--but what could it really accomplish?
lets say enough people were informed and enraged regarding socioeconomic inequality, civil rights abuses, being bamboozled and later were homeless, starving, ect...a critical mass of dissent...what would result? there was a vocal critical mass of dissent in september--accomplished nothing (except scare the sh*t out of the legislature requiring them to come up with much better lies--but they know who they are beholden to)--dissent mirroring france or greece? I see cops and neutralization--symbolic statements, no real change--mass revolt: I see brazil or pacification & re-absorption into a broken, inequitable system...maybe not--never know for sure--but governing masses is always problematic and never ideal--those who want
a revolution better get ready for what comes after--anarchy is ideal, people aren't...though, libertarian socialism is probably the most just (but that's in accord with my views social justice--that said, I think my views are probably the most just:)
But on a less abstract, more practical level...people--be kind to your neighbor--if you have a little more than you need--pass it on--(the haves probably have due to
an inherently fixed game)--I used to only have two dollars for food & I'd always give one to this guy playing a clarinet on a free-way offramp--and ate 99c miss debbie honey buns for the rest of the day
and will probably die of heart disease before I'm 40...but that's probably a bad example--he most likely
got to get high & play the clarinet--while I got layed off was still homeless and will never see my guitar out of storage again...and real estate developers in suv's got to pass us to pick up their slaves on oxnard & kester, contributing to this carnage...but he was my brother... giving/ameliorating suffering (even if its a projection--but usually not)...makes me feel better (i.e. not really bad)--must be how cutters feel--I just hand out cash and if i don't have any, feel depressed---
I do other stuff too...wonder about the nature of altruism...some say it's just an extension of self-interest-some say it's genetic to the degree that sociopath is--hmmm, there's a long line of unbelievably generous folks in my family that have absolutely nothing--born privileged and spread the wealth, though were impractical in certain ways essential to survival--but the point is, even if your on the titanic and going down, you can at least hold someones hand!
Reply
remember john woolman
p.s. didn't mean to sound defeatist--dissent no matter what the outcome, is mandatory or should come naturally, given the circumstances--even if it's a construct one holds in their mind--in a way, rage is dissent not acted upon--so the seeds are there: 1) sheeple need a charismatic leader/highly organized structure and masses of other sheeple to get them off their hindquarters--we tend to
"get rid of" or discredit those who have potential to be such or are gaining ground; 2) see- all the anti-labor legislation passed over the past 40 years & 3) the US is more a like a continent than country--in size, recources, industries, culture--the whole right/left thing perpetuated on talk radio (mind control 101--blast propaganda through loud speakers at all times--got fox when you get home) is very much about
manipulating a fertile sector of dissent (like you mentioned)--they're being f*cked over as much as anyone--demographics are changing ...rush limbaugh is having an "extinction burst" :)
everything's in a state of flux, but we are now at the center of the storm--so it's hard to see-- in chinese, crisis(weiji) does not mean danger or opportunity, it means "on a pivot"--given the global climate, things don't look good.
& we funneled grants to certain scientists, oh, because we wanted to know more about depression and help people--yeah right-->welcome to the pit of despair--not as fascinating as some of the mkultra stuff--but more "applicable" (hate that word)--apply...directly to the forehead.
Reply
Reply
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