On Support For Feminism
The article: Don't Be That GuyFirst of all I have to say that this piece was well written, especially in that it harasses a guy reading it very little. There have been few times I've been pointed towards this kind of material without being assaulted with "men are evil", "how can you live with yourself", etc. This can only hurt the cause these
( Read more... )
I was sort of startelled by your claim that saying a gentle 'dude, I think you scared her' would definitely lead to physical violence. On one hand I'm willing to believe you know a hell of a lot more about the likely responses of guys to other guys then I do, on the other hand the writer of the post clearly didn't think violence would be the result and he's a guy too. :) However, if you are correct, and you might well be, then by no means would I recommend trying to talk to the guy afterwards. The point of the interference is to help out the girl and if possible enlighten the guy so he doesn't do it again in case he isn't aware he's being an asshole. A fight isn't going to accomplish either of those and isn't going to help anyone involved or women as a group and so should be avoided. I really don't think coming up to two people talking and striking up a conversation with the guy will by itself likely result in violence (if for no other reason then having been to a number or parties where no physical fights broke out). So, basically my point is, no one wants guy allies to do the physical fight thing unless someone is being physically assaulted, except for those occasional 'allies' who want to come over the white knight and get hero kudos.
Second. Feminists talk about how men are hurt by patriarchy and/or gender roles. They don't talk about it as much as they talk about how women are hurt by the above and get annoyed when conversations that aren't about men are side tracked to be about men. I think there are good reasons why the 'how men are hurt' isn't 50% of the conversation. First, as you mentioned the disparity of women facing more issues and second as the movement is made up of a majority of women who feel like since they're the ones doing the work their issues ought to get over 50% of the attention. No feminist has anything against people of either gender that post or start conversations about how men are disadvantaged by current gender expectations etc. Those kinds of conversations are out there (mostly started by feminists) and if you're interested I encourage you to find them, I could probably dig up a couple links.
However, I'm not convinced that feminists need to devote more energy to getting the message 'men can be helped by feminism and that's why you should be a feminist' out there. I'm more a fan of the decent human being approach, I think the moral argument is a stronger argument then the practical one in this case (even though I'm generally a fan of the practical argument) because there is limited support for the practical argument and the moral dimension is key to a lot of the premises.
Personally, when female friends or acquaintances disparage a guy for ridiculous reasons like an interest in fashion or if I hear 'he's such a pussy' I make my opinion of this very clear. I don't do this because it might help break down gender roles which might also help women. I don't do this in order to gain points with or convert the guy in question who'll never find out about the convo. I do it because I'm a decent human being and I believe that it's wrong to do that to men.
And maybe more convincingly, the reason I don't think activist feminists who've already found their issues and voice should divert their focus (though all props to anyone who wants to take up the male issue) is that their target audiance aren't luke warm male allies that might be convinced by an appeal to self interest. A lot of the target audience are women. A lot of those women are ones who are angry, fed up etc. and who need a support network, someone to tell them they aren't crazy etc. preaching to the choir is an important function in any movement. Not all women are feminists by any stretch of the imagination and for obvious reasons that's the more urgent demographic for feminism as a movement to reach.
Reply
And wow that got really long. I'm going to stop now and get back to hearsay definitions. :(
Two more points. After spending quite a while reading a lot of feminist sites and commentators I've only encountered one person who I could characterize as male hating in the notoriously crazy internet and she doesn't even have a blog. *shrug* People talk in generalities when they talk about society, if your group is a problem you've got to not take it personally. My second, related point is that I'm 'white' and I'm aware of the privilege this gives me and the way I take advantage of the history of white privilege in America while living here just by being me. I believe taking advantage of those advantages gives me a certain responsibility for the history and for the current discrimination etc. no matter the lack of my personal hateful acts. But I wouldn't characterize myself as self hating or swimming in guilt. :)
Thank you for the break from Evidence!
Reply
In reply to the post/commentary/etc: I've often been guilty of this 'stealing someone's ideas' thing just because I can see how to rephrase a thing and make it understood. I would never 'call someone out' for it as though it were an attempt to take credit for the idea (unless it obviously was, as in 'hey i just got this idea, what if X'). But, you need to turn to the original speaker and acknowledge "Oh, that was what you meant. Now I see it! Thanks for pointing that out."
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment