Feeling philosophical for once in a long time.
Feeling philosophical for once in a long time. Haven't had a good philosophical idea to mull over in ages. (To help explain the following, I am a syncretist who has Paganism, Christianity, and "Conversations With God" by Neale Donald Walsch in my path, among other things.)
Okay, so I sent this comic in the email to several people, because I agree with the sentiment Agnes's grandmother says in the middle block. And saharris replied, "And yet... there are some people who aren't confused at all and experience crystal clarity. We're confused until we're not. LOL So... sounds like it's true for you and not for everyone. ;) How have you been?"
Which spawned this response from me:
I guess I'm biased. One of my Goddesses is Eris, Ancient Greek Goddess of Chaos and Confusion. Confusion is a sacred state of mind for me. :-) I like to induce it in other people.
Yeah, there are the people who get those moments of crystal clarity. But those people are rare, and people who live in a constant state of such sublime clarity are even more rare. It's been my observation that most people who are sure of things are indeed delusional or being self-deceptive. People who genuinely "get it" are a minority. And since dogma is so restrictive (Robert Anton Wilson said "When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases."), those people who achieve genuine clarity most often got there by means of Confusion delivering them from dogma.
But Confusion cannot be avoided. I too have experienced moments of clarity, too, and to me they stem from confusion and finding an answer that feels perfect and joyful and awesome. But to believe that idea completely could eventually turn to dogma, so I go by the philosophy that "Well, this seems like it's True. Dunno if it is, and given that reality is relative it won't be True for everyone, but it feels True to me, so I'll accept it as True to me and keep an open mind." I am a spiritual agnostic, essentially. Those times I've felt absolutely certain of things, I've been proven wrong later. So I don't believe in Absolute Truth. I say things like this:
* And quoth Jesus, "Because! The Ultimate Truth is like an acid trip--never the same way twice!" ( http://fayanora.23ae.com/Discordian/CBOBS.htm )
* " She huffed angrily at this Goddess. "Okay, then, tell me what this cave is. Where are we? Why does the sky look different?"
"Ask Me no questions just yet, for I will tell you no lies."
"What? Why won't you answer those questions? Surely it can't hurt to answer where I am?"
Goddess smiled. "Keep asking questions, for they are good. It has been My experience, though, that it works best to have people answer their own questions if they can. For I could tell you the truth from My perspective, but that would not be the truth for you. You came here, you answer yourself why." " ( http://fayanora.23ae.com/wisdoms.html ; also it's a quote from my novel, "I'll Tell You No Lies.")
* "These are the Waters of Truth. When the universe was young, there were three powers. The Black, from which all arose, as I told you; The Wellspring of Light, which is Order; and My realm, The Heart of The Chaos, The Vital Spark of Life. When the light came out of these caves, these three forces came together to make existence as we know it, and The Black formed a cave from which flows Truth. These waters are pure Truth. Drink of these waters and a Truth shall be revealed to you.
"But before you drink of the Waters of Truth, you should be aware of the nature of Truth. Truth is a mischievous mistress that hides in the shadows, and even when you see it in the full light of knowing, not everyone sees it the same way. The Truth is like a shape-shifter---even if two people see it in basically the same way, perspective makes subtle differences. Whatever Truth you see from the Waters is yours and yours alone. It comes from your soul, the waters merely open the door to it. Though you may share it if you wish, but it will be a different truth for others. Do you understand?" (From the same source as the above quote)
So yeah. Knowledge and perspective change how one perceived Truth. Knowledge and Perspective change one another, as well. I believe it is possible to know things in many ways, even from direct communication with The Divine, but even with knowing "everything," continuing experience and thought changes the Truth one perceives about it. I can't even tell you how many times I've thought I'd exhausted every way of looking at a thing and finding a new perspective on it weeks or even years later; new information comes in, often times unrelated to the original idea, and suddenly a mutation appears and I see something in a new light.
This attitude of mine is very much a reflection of the way my mind works. My mind is naturally in a constant state of thought, new information and old information mixing together. Things I haven't thought of for years suddenly pop up at random. It's a chaotic laboratory of thought experiments in my brain, pretty much anything goes. Anything from my past or present can relate to anything, can link to anything else and create mutant thoughts that, in turn, also link to anything else. And most of it happens without my even being aware of it. I cannot begin to count all the times I've suddenly had an idea and had absolutely no clue who its parents are. Add to this nine different minds in one body, and it's quite spectacular in there if I do say so myself. Nothing that comes into my sensory awareness is immune from being added to the melting pot of ideas in my head. And there seems to be no limit to size, either. I've had entire poems or pieces of prose float up to the surface of my mind, already fully planned and complete, without any idea that any part of my mind had been thinking about such things. (Although that's kind of rare for entire poems or prose pieces to suddenly surface. More often than not, a stanza or two will float up.)
So yeah, my ideas about things are constantly changing. Which explains why I'm a spiritual agnostic of sorts. I think we can get information about things directly from The Divine, and so there's Truth, but there's no such thing as Absolute Truth. Because not only do no 2 people see things the exact same way, one person doesn't see things the same way from one minute to the next.
*Hee hee* Then in a comment on the ArcaMax site (replying to the comic), I said, "If there is an Absolute Truth, it is impossible for humans to know. Perspective and knowledge change each other and change one's Truth, how one perceived The Truth. Actually, technically it is impossible for any sentient being to know The Ultimate Truth. All sentient beings have perspective, and even knowing everything, one's ideas about a thing might still change. I think that not even God can know the Absolute Truth entirely, if for no other reason than that Truth shape-shifts constantly for mortals. There can be no certainty without a lack of change, and since the only constant is Change, there can be no certainty.
But I think this is a good thing. I think there was certainty at the beginning of Creation, and it was extremely boring. So God created the Relative Worlds (like the Mortal Coil and other dimensions) so that there would be change. Because change is interesting, and lack of change - stagnation - is boring."
LOL! Along those kinda lines, kengr emailed me this: http://maskedretriever.com/other_comics/simon2/
Which spawned this response from me:
every act, no matter how cruel, would only be a form of communication
That is precisely how things are. Cruelty is a label, and we're all just communicating Who We Chose To Be in order to figure out Who We Really Are.
I'm not guilty of hitting you, you consented to being hit.
Hmm... I've always had a problem with that part of it. I suppose one's soul having a vastly different perspective on mortal reality means that at the soul level one can consent to things like that even if they don't on an ego level, but it doesn't really fit with the "every act is a form of communication" thing. I mean, I could communicate whatever I want to and assault your ears and that doesn't mean you consented to it. It just *happened*.
Besides, the whole "you consent to shit on a soul level" thing implies planning ahead, which implies some kind of fate. Now there is some degree of planning before one is born, with the soul making a general "To Do" list before being incarnated, but it doesn't always work out as planned. Not everything on the list gets done just as one doesn't necessarily always get everything on one's shopping list when they go to the market. ("Damn, I forgot to experience gambling addiction in that life!") And then a lot of stuff happens that wasn't planned.
Though of course, there is also another thing to consider: thoughts and actions can magically attract shit to you. Magic is one of those constants, you can't escape it; everything you think, do, and say performs lots of minor magics on the universe. So there is some degree of attraction of things both "good" and "bad." Still, that's not necessarily consent, even on a soul level. For all we know the ego could be attracting, say, a mugging, and the soul might be up there being all like "God dammit, NO! NO NO NO NO NO!"
It implies multiple gods, hence multiple realities
"Thou art all Gods." All people are gods in miniature. The soul is very close to God/Source. For all intents and purposes, one's soul IS one's God.
She argues that mysticism doesn't imply a subjective reality--only a subjective meaning.
Hmmm... kinda goes along with what I was telling Sandi earlier about how, even if there is an Ultimate Truth, It is an elusive mistress, never revealing all of herself to anyone, because perspective and knowledge change one's view of Truth. And since we can only know reality through our own subjective lenses as sentient beings, not even God (also a sentient being) can have the whole picture. In fact, experiencing everything from everyone's POV simultaneously - though seeming like it would be Ultimate Reality - would in fact not be so, because being omniscient God would have access to information that mortals don't, which is a different perspective than all those individual perspectives combined.
And even assuming omniscience COULD find Ultimate Truth, every soul is omniscient at its highest level, and every soul would have a different personal perspective on all that it sees. So an Ultimate Reality, if it exists, is impossible for even God to know. See this post: http://fayanora.livejournal.com/335589.html and read "Quantum Psychology" by Robert Anton Wilson.
Okay, so I sent this comic in the email to several people, because I agree with the sentiment Agnes's grandmother says in the middle block. And saharris replied, "And yet... there are some people who aren't confused at all and experience crystal clarity. We're confused until we're not. LOL So... sounds like it's true for you and not for everyone. ;) How have you been?"
Which spawned this response from me:
I guess I'm biased. One of my Goddesses is Eris, Ancient Greek Goddess of Chaos and Confusion. Confusion is a sacred state of mind for me. :-) I like to induce it in other people.
Yeah, there are the people who get those moments of crystal clarity. But those people are rare, and people who live in a constant state of such sublime clarity are even more rare. It's been my observation that most people who are sure of things are indeed delusional or being self-deceptive. People who genuinely "get it" are a minority. And since dogma is so restrictive (Robert Anton Wilson said "When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases."), those people who achieve genuine clarity most often got there by means of Confusion delivering them from dogma.
But Confusion cannot be avoided. I too have experienced moments of clarity, too, and to me they stem from confusion and finding an answer that feels perfect and joyful and awesome. But to believe that idea completely could eventually turn to dogma, so I go by the philosophy that "Well, this seems like it's True. Dunno if it is, and given that reality is relative it won't be True for everyone, but it feels True to me, so I'll accept it as True to me and keep an open mind." I am a spiritual agnostic, essentially. Those times I've felt absolutely certain of things, I've been proven wrong later. So I don't believe in Absolute Truth. I say things like this:
* And quoth Jesus, "Because! The Ultimate Truth is like an acid trip--never the same way twice!" ( http://fayanora.23ae.com/Discordian/CBOBS.htm )
* " She huffed angrily at this Goddess. "Okay, then, tell me what this cave is. Where are we? Why does the sky look different?"
"Ask Me no questions just yet, for I will tell you no lies."
"What? Why won't you answer those questions? Surely it can't hurt to answer where I am?"
Goddess smiled. "Keep asking questions, for they are good. It has been My experience, though, that it works best to have people answer their own questions if they can. For I could tell you the truth from My perspective, but that would not be the truth for you. You came here, you answer yourself why." " ( http://fayanora.23ae.com/wisdoms.html ; also it's a quote from my novel, "I'll Tell You No Lies.")
* "These are the Waters of Truth. When the universe was young, there were three powers. The Black, from which all arose, as I told you; The Wellspring of Light, which is Order; and My realm, The Heart of The Chaos, The Vital Spark of Life. When the light came out of these caves, these three forces came together to make existence as we know it, and The Black formed a cave from which flows Truth. These waters are pure Truth. Drink of these waters and a Truth shall be revealed to you.
"But before you drink of the Waters of Truth, you should be aware of the nature of Truth. Truth is a mischievous mistress that hides in the shadows, and even when you see it in the full light of knowing, not everyone sees it the same way. The Truth is like a shape-shifter---even if two people see it in basically the same way, perspective makes subtle differences. Whatever Truth you see from the Waters is yours and yours alone. It comes from your soul, the waters merely open the door to it. Though you may share it if you wish, but it will be a different truth for others. Do you understand?" (From the same source as the above quote)
So yeah. Knowledge and perspective change how one perceived Truth. Knowledge and Perspective change one another, as well. I believe it is possible to know things in many ways, even from direct communication with The Divine, but even with knowing "everything," continuing experience and thought changes the Truth one perceives about it. I can't even tell you how many times I've thought I'd exhausted every way of looking at a thing and finding a new perspective on it weeks or even years later; new information comes in, often times unrelated to the original idea, and suddenly a mutation appears and I see something in a new light.
This attitude of mine is very much a reflection of the way my mind works. My mind is naturally in a constant state of thought, new information and old information mixing together. Things I haven't thought of for years suddenly pop up at random. It's a chaotic laboratory of thought experiments in my brain, pretty much anything goes. Anything from my past or present can relate to anything, can link to anything else and create mutant thoughts that, in turn, also link to anything else. And most of it happens without my even being aware of it. I cannot begin to count all the times I've suddenly had an idea and had absolutely no clue who its parents are. Add to this nine different minds in one body, and it's quite spectacular in there if I do say so myself. Nothing that comes into my sensory awareness is immune from being added to the melting pot of ideas in my head. And there seems to be no limit to size, either. I've had entire poems or pieces of prose float up to the surface of my mind, already fully planned and complete, without any idea that any part of my mind had been thinking about such things. (Although that's kind of rare for entire poems or prose pieces to suddenly surface. More often than not, a stanza or two will float up.)
So yeah, my ideas about things are constantly changing. Which explains why I'm a spiritual agnostic of sorts. I think we can get information about things directly from The Divine, and so there's Truth, but there's no such thing as Absolute Truth. Because not only do no 2 people see things the exact same way, one person doesn't see things the same way from one minute to the next.
*Hee hee* Then in a comment on the ArcaMax site (replying to the comic), I said, "If there is an Absolute Truth, it is impossible for humans to know. Perspective and knowledge change each other and change one's Truth, how one perceived The Truth. Actually, technically it is impossible for any sentient being to know The Ultimate Truth. All sentient beings have perspective, and even knowing everything, one's ideas about a thing might still change. I think that not even God can know the Absolute Truth entirely, if for no other reason than that Truth shape-shifts constantly for mortals. There can be no certainty without a lack of change, and since the only constant is Change, there can be no certainty.
But I think this is a good thing. I think there was certainty at the beginning of Creation, and it was extremely boring. So God created the Relative Worlds (like the Mortal Coil and other dimensions) so that there would be change. Because change is interesting, and lack of change - stagnation - is boring."
LOL! Along those kinda lines, kengr emailed me this: http://maskedretriever.com/other_comics/simon2/
Which spawned this response from me:
every act, no matter how cruel, would only be a form of communication
That is precisely how things are. Cruelty is a label, and we're all just communicating Who We Chose To Be in order to figure out Who We Really Are.
I'm not guilty of hitting you, you consented to being hit.
Hmm... I've always had a problem with that part of it. I suppose one's soul having a vastly different perspective on mortal reality means that at the soul level one can consent to things like that even if they don't on an ego level, but it doesn't really fit with the "every act is a form of communication" thing. I mean, I could communicate whatever I want to and assault your ears and that doesn't mean you consented to it. It just *happened*.
Besides, the whole "you consent to shit on a soul level" thing implies planning ahead, which implies some kind of fate. Now there is some degree of planning before one is born, with the soul making a general "To Do" list before being incarnated, but it doesn't always work out as planned. Not everything on the list gets done just as one doesn't necessarily always get everything on one's shopping list when they go to the market. ("Damn, I forgot to experience gambling addiction in that life!") And then a lot of stuff happens that wasn't planned.
Though of course, there is also another thing to consider: thoughts and actions can magically attract shit to you. Magic is one of those constants, you can't escape it; everything you think, do, and say performs lots of minor magics on the universe. So there is some degree of attraction of things both "good" and "bad." Still, that's not necessarily consent, even on a soul level. For all we know the ego could be attracting, say, a mugging, and the soul might be up there being all like "God dammit, NO! NO NO NO NO NO!"
It implies multiple gods, hence multiple realities
"Thou art all Gods." All people are gods in miniature. The soul is very close to God/Source. For all intents and purposes, one's soul IS one's God.
She argues that mysticism doesn't imply a subjective reality--only a subjective meaning.
Hmmm... kinda goes along with what I was telling Sandi earlier about how, even if there is an Ultimate Truth, It is an elusive mistress, never revealing all of herself to anyone, because perspective and knowledge change one's view of Truth. And since we can only know reality through our own subjective lenses as sentient beings, not even God (also a sentient being) can have the whole picture. In fact, experiencing everything from everyone's POV simultaneously - though seeming like it would be Ultimate Reality - would in fact not be so, because being omniscient God would have access to information that mortals don't, which is a different perspective than all those individual perspectives combined.
And even assuming omniscience COULD find Ultimate Truth, every soul is omniscient at its highest level, and every soul would have a different personal perspective on all that it sees. So an Ultimate Reality, if it exists, is impossible for even God to know. See this post: http://fayanora.livejournal.com/335589.html and read "Quantum Psychology" by Robert Anton Wilson.