Some More Thoughts on Gender Stereotypes

Nov 16, 2006 00:01

desdenova replied to my last post by describing the gender inequalities in the science world. Since she is a Scientist!, she knows whereof she speaks. I did my time in the world of science, but mostly at a women's college, and in biology, so I can't speak to the gender issues there. However, my time in The Theatre School sure taught me a thing or two about ( Read more... )

theater, self-analytical drivel, gender

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Now you got me going... poguer November 16 2006, 16:25:45 UTC
I will endeavor to keep this brief, since it is your post, not mine. You make some valid points, but I don't know if there is a solution to the less than admirable situation of our society's gender gap. From a male perspective, I actually envy some of the freedoms we give females (wearing what ever they want, in what ever color they want, for example), but I also recognize the limitations the "Good ol' Boy Network" places on women.

On the flip-side of the coin, let me give you some history:
When I was in High-School, I was big into theater and musical theater and was very in touch with my feminine side. Hence, I was labeled as a "fag", "homo", "queer", and was generally shunned and abused. What did I do? I bent to the peer-pressure, but it was too late to recover. After High-school, I joined the Marines to (among other purposes) change my image. This took me to the other extreme and I became a homo-phobic bully who sneered at anyone not up to standard. This wasn't where I wanted to be either. After a few years in the Restaurant biz, I became more comfortable in my own skin and managed to discard my homo-phobia. So, in essence, I have gone from one extreme to the other and ended in the middle. Unfortunately, for most men, they don't go through the living hell I went through, but they also have not achieved the balance I have found. I cook, care for my daughter, and love my wife while still managing to watch football, drink beer, and throw darts with the guys. Not perfect, but I am happy with where I landed. I just wish some of the old world mentality would go away. We are all individuals, so please don't generalize.

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Re: Now you got me going... poguer November 16 2006, 18:45:27 UTC
You have good points there, without question, and i agree whole-heartedly.

The thing that gets my goat is that be it racial or gender inequality, white males get blamed and bashed for the failures of our ancestors and other misogynistic individuals. I'm sorry I'm Caucasian. I'm sorry I'm a Christian. I'm sorry that my forefathers were bigoted and chauvinistic. However, I am proud to be a man who is secure enough to work for anyone, regardless of gender/race, who displays professional ethics. I am proud that I am an involved father, and I am proud of my friends who can take topics like this and create intelligent discussion. Thanks for sharing your ideas and thoughts.

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Re: Now you got me going... equusregia November 16 2006, 23:51:55 UTC
It is a common tenet among feminists that sexism is harmful to men, as well as to women, and the things you are complaining about are perfect examples for why that is true.

My god, you are going to force me to write another post. I agree with you about this, especially as it relates to fatherhood, which is a topic close to my heart.

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Re: Now you got me going... kmriley November 16 2006, 18:20:56 UTC
It seems to me that in a lot of the real world, if you are a woman and show up to work not appropriately dressed you get into a lot of crap - either official or social. So, if you don't have heeled shoes with makeup, etc. I've seen many a woman pressured into having to wear makeup and feel very bad for her about that (she would not have otherwise).

My point is only that in some circles women are given 'freedom' into some crappy fashion 'options'.

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Re: Now you got me going... poguer November 16 2006, 18:51:31 UTC
I was thinking in terms of children with that statement about wearing what ever you wish...

However, I agree that it is skewed that way in business, but I find that as long as you dress professionally, no one should have an issue. For gosh sake, do you think I LIKE wearing neckties? Do you think I like to wear starched shirts and suits? I must admit that I haven't had anyone tell me I had to wear heels or makeup, and for this I am thankful! :)

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Re: Now you got me going... equusregia November 17 2006, 04:11:58 UTC
Someday, when gender equality has progressed into the realm of fashion, we will all be required to wear starched shirts, neckties, makeup, AND heels!

It happened in the 17th century, so it can happen again. Don't forget wigs and corsets. For all of the legitimate complaints about the discomfort of work clothes, there are lots of eras where the clothes were an order of magnitude more uncomfortable than now.

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Re: Now you got me going... equusregia November 17 2006, 00:07:14 UTC
I was thinking in terms of children with that statement about wearing what ever you wish...

Yes, female children have the most freedom of choice, and adult women in casual environments run a close second. Work is a whole other story.

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Re: Now you got me going... equusregia November 16 2006, 23:59:45 UTC
Not perfect, but I am happy with where I landed.

For what it's worth, ever since I have known you I have found you very comfortable and non-judgmental about gender roles. I'm happy with where you landed too. I enjoyed going to some guy-ish movies with you that my sister didn't want to see. I've always been very proud of your pride in her professional accomplishments -- not many men are as genuinely approving when their wives are being the major breadwinner. As with my theater experience, your early struggles with gender identity were at times painful and turned you into someone you didn't like, but you learned from them. If only more people did.

I just wish some of the old world mentality would go away.

Damn right. Why can't we all just get along?

We are all individuals, so please don't generalize.

That's the point of my earlier post, and the way I feel about gender issues in general. People are welcome to handle their gender how they like as far as I'm concerned, but I don't agree with forcing other people to conform to one's own gender image.

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