Just a thought that popped up...

[eposia]

Unless and until the Open Source Boob Project that everyone is fussing about lately is accompanied by an Open Source Ball-Grabbing Project filled with similar numbers of enthusiastic participants, the OSBP will remain sexist in overtone

Comments

[atdt1991]

The name was poorly thought of and not indicative of body parts grabbed. I promise you that all parts touched were secondary sexual characteristics only, and that it is my personal opinion (knowing very well that I could be very wrong, and willing to hear that) that had you been there at the time and heard the -actual- explanation at the convention rather than the one posted online, and been amongst this particular group of people, at that time in the night, I think you'd probably have enthusiastically participated.

Now, I don't think I'd say that to anyone else, and I'm rather afraid that will come off as me telling you what you should think. I don't mean it that way. I'm just sick of hearing about it, and my heart aches, aches, aches from the attacks of people who weren't there and have a completely incorrect understanding of the intent, overtone and area of effect of the OSBP. A woman started the project because her friend allowed her to feel her boobs, just to know what they felt like and have the confidence to ask to touch and be allowed it, and suddenly it has to be about balls and crotches.

[eposia]

Hmm. I didn't say it to be inflammatory, but based on an argument I read for the reasons to the project, that seemed to me to be incomplete. I'm hearing at least one report from another participant that male breasts and butts were part of the OSBP as well, which certainly sounds like a reasonable balance if true.

And it's quite probable I would have participated, even enthusiastically. I am sorry your heart aches over this, but my intent here is not to cause you more pain. I am not hearing enough about the true gender-nonspecificity of the event, or wasn't until I started this post and a comment in Anne's post, so for me it's very relevant.

[atdt1991]

I wore my "yes" pin, and both my bum and my chest were squeezed by people who asked "may I?" - both women and men did so, too.

[eposia]

If you'll note, I amended the original entry to include reference to our discussion here.

[atdt1991]

I did note, and it did please me to see the addendum. *smile* I think -this- is a good discussion. As opposed to the other, famous one.

Whether the project was about desexualizing breasts had something to do with who you asked, apparently. Ferrett felt that it was sexual, but the people who came up with the idea originally did (and do) not. The large majority of touching that I saw (that related to the project, mind you, don't forget we're at a convention here) involved what I would call a "heft" or "squeeze" rather than a directly sexual, say, pinch or attention to the nipple.

Some of us got together last night - you could call it a support group, if you'd like, heh, and we convinced one of the girls (the first one to ask, if that matters) not to delete her journal over this foofaraw. We talked about this whole thing, and it seemed pretty clear to us that the five of us who were there and participated understood that it had nothing to do with sex and had everything to do with the human body and touch and the fear of touching others.

[eposia]

See, that's a philosophy I can enthusiastically support, for sure! I am very glad that you all are giving support to each other. I am all for more projects that explore the realms of asking permission to touch, and touching, others. But anyone engaging in such projects should remember not to be too naively idealistic about it. Meaning, anytime you try a project that starts pushing people's levels of comfort, or what they've been conditioned to believe, or whatever, you will get some percentage of reactionary response. Taking those knee-jerk reactions personally won't help the cause; it's better to prepare ahead of time for how to handle any potential naysayers, while still keeping the focus on the true intents and goals of the project. Easy to say, of course, less easy to do.

[eposia]

Also, saying something is sexist in overtone is not automatically an attack. I've seen a trend from several of the participants that if any question at all is raised over the project, it's an attack. That attitude doesn't help in discussions any more than the snotty attacks from overly-reactive non-participants does.

[atdt1991]

In a river of mud, it is hard to see the clear drop of water. Or, put another way, context is everything, and I am trying not to lay the larger context of the angry discussions at the feet of your comment, and perhaps not entirely succeeding in hearing your intended tone.

Some people cannot say the word sexist without spitting it, if you understand my meaning, and, also, as a participant (even if I was drawn in later, rather than earlier), I am pretty sensitive to implications that *I* am sexist in nature. Hell, I'm already way too sensitive to that implication, and was probably too sensitive about it before I even had hair on my chest.

Not to say that I don't occasionally do or say things that come off as or are sexist - I imagine we all do, in varying degrees. I just thought that this exercise was the opposite of sexist, at that time, and that I, in general, try to speak out against sexism and not participate in activities I consider sexist.

[eposia]

And I'd tend to agree that the original intent of the project as you have told it to me sounds non-sexist. the tone of my post could probably be described as wryly amused tongue-in-cheek--I saw both sides overreacting but wasn't seeing the information that *I* wanted to see to form an opinion, and that's how it came out. I was not trying to attack anyone, to me the fact that we can start talking about more unconscious manifestations of sexism in society and individuals is a sign of improvement, and the people who spit out sexism and stop there are Not Helping Things and actually taking us backward. And I'd say that our subsequent *good* discussion on this topic has resolved any intimations of hostility or attack between us, or at least I hope so.

[atdt1991]

*hugs* Too right. I readjusted my expectations when I was writing my last comment, and saw your post as you explain it now.