[meta]: the nice guy phenomenon, and why it is a problem
It's probably a bit strange for me to be posting this after not posting anything outside of fandom things for the past... year or so, but this is something that has been weighing on my mind a lot recently; so, here we go.
A couple of days ago, I became aware of The Nice Guy, a website which was set up by (presumably) a self-ordained Nice Guy. In it, this hypothetical Nice Guy talks about how American Women Suck - below is an excerpt from it, which sums up the entire website's sentiment towards women:
"This site exists for the many men who... were raised to be honest, decent and kind to others, which is (we are told) what women want from a man. Yet somehow they always end up passed over as potential partners. How many times have you sat down and re-assessed what you did wrong or failed to do and resolved to be an even better, kinder and more generous man in the future? Have you tried and tried and tried and perhaps finally reached the conclusion that you are simply "broken" and there is nothing more to be done? Don't despair, because you are not "broken" and the truth of the situation is incredibly simple, yet it is one that few people dare utter. The truth is, American Women (mostly) Suck!"
Now, this actually got me thinking. I will admit - only perhaps a week or so, I had a very large fight with my boyfriend. While we've bickered in the past before, this was our first real fight, and after the hurt and anger burned out, it made me start to re-evaluate our relationship and also how women are expected, in general, in society, to behave towards men.
My boy is actually the stereotypical Nice Guy. Before I met him, he'd had two or three relationships, all with Asian girls, in which he'd been - according to him - dumped or "passed over" for other guys after some time. One of these occasions involved the girl leaving him for his best friend. One of these occasions involved the stock-standard "friend-zone" situation, in which he was chasing a girl whom he thought liked him but eventually was rejected. Ignoring the problematic string-of-Asian-girls thing (which is a whole other issue), what this has essentially done is turned my boy into one of those guys - the ones whom cannot understand why, despite being so "honest, decent and kind", they can never seem to get the girl.
I thought long and hard about this the other day, trying to pin down the root of why this phenomenon bothers me so much. And I think I've finally reached an answer.
The problem with Nice Guys, and the way they think, is that their argument is so completely entitled that it boggles the mind. We're being so nice to you! they seem to shout. Can't you see it's because I like you? Why can't you show your gratitude like a good girl and go out/sleep with me? What they don't seem to realise is that there is absolutely nothing "nice" about this sentiment. What they have essentially done is reduced the woman to a prize, an object, an asset that can be bought. What they do not seem to understand is that a woman's body is not a barter system; you do not "earn" a right to it, just by helping her move house, or letting her crash on your couch, or listening to her 3am panicked calls about her latest boyfriend. Being decent does not entitle you to liberties. If it did, then every little old lady I helped across the street should be paying me $20, because I'm so "nice". Does that happen? No. Is it something people expect should happen? No. So why do men expect that women will put out in return for kindness?
The reason why my boy and I fought this time was because of sex. I'm not a very sexual person; I like it, but it's not something I think about 24/7. My boy though, on the other hand, despite being 25, has the libido of a 15-yr-old. Every time I see him he wants sex. The moment I walk through the door of his house and hug him, he is trying to manoeuvre me towards his bedroom. When I finally put my foot down on this issue, his arguments to me were:
Put bluntly in point form above, it's quite easy to see why these arguments are problematic. But what's perhaps less obvious is that this is the Nice Guy movement in a nutshell. These guys are confused: why aren't all girls flattered by the fact that we find them sexually desirable? (Probably because we place more value in our lives, than to exist solely to please your dicks. It is not flattering in any way to be reduced to a pair of boobs and a vagina.) Why can't they see that I'm insecure about my appearance? (Because your insecurity is your own business - it isn't our responsibility to have sex with you, just to make you feel better about yourself. We don't exist solely to bolster your ego.) Why do they have to make such a big deal about it? I mean, we're both here! We have nothing to do! Other couples are having sex! Why can't we? (Because you expect it - because you are saying that my autonomy, my decisions, my willingness/unwillingness, doesn't matter. Because you see us girls as nothing more than a reward.)
There is nothing wrong with a woman saying no. There is nothing wrong with a woman saying no, even if you have bought her a car, or an apartment, or taken her on an impromptu trip to Spain.
There is nothing wrong with a woman saying no.
The car, the apartment, the trip to Spain: those were your decisions. You willingly spent the money and the effort to do those things. Nobody forced you. That is the lament of all Nice Guys: you didn't ask me to be nice to you, but I was, and now you won't appreciate me. The Nice Guy website states: "It's not hard to see that American women mostly suck once you begin to contemplate the radical idea that you might not be the problem". But guess what, boys? You are the problem. If you honestly believe that a woman owes you her body after you voluntarily, under your own volition, helped her to do a or b or c, then you are the problem.
And perhaps - just perhaps - that is why she said no.
A couple of days ago, I became aware of The Nice Guy, a website which was set up by (presumably) a self-ordained Nice Guy. In it, this hypothetical Nice Guy talks about how American Women Suck - below is an excerpt from it, which sums up the entire website's sentiment towards women:
"This site exists for the many men who... were raised to be honest, decent and kind to others, which is (we are told) what women want from a man. Yet somehow they always end up passed over as potential partners. How many times have you sat down and re-assessed what you did wrong or failed to do and resolved to be an even better, kinder and more generous man in the future? Have you tried and tried and tried and perhaps finally reached the conclusion that you are simply "broken" and there is nothing more to be done? Don't despair, because you are not "broken" and the truth of the situation is incredibly simple, yet it is one that few people dare utter. The truth is, American Women (mostly) Suck!"
Now, this actually got me thinking. I will admit - only perhaps a week or so, I had a very large fight with my boyfriend. While we've bickered in the past before, this was our first real fight, and after the hurt and anger burned out, it made me start to re-evaluate our relationship and also how women are expected, in general, in society, to behave towards men.
My boy is actually the stereotypical Nice Guy. Before I met him, he'd had two or three relationships, all with Asian girls, in which he'd been - according to him - dumped or "passed over" for other guys after some time. One of these occasions involved the girl leaving him for his best friend. One of these occasions involved the stock-standard "friend-zone" situation, in which he was chasing a girl whom he thought liked him but eventually was rejected. Ignoring the problematic string-of-Asian-girls thing (which is a whole other issue), what this has essentially done is turned my boy into one of those guys - the ones whom cannot understand why, despite being so "honest, decent and kind", they can never seem to get the girl.
I thought long and hard about this the other day, trying to pin down the root of why this phenomenon bothers me so much. And I think I've finally reached an answer.
The problem with Nice Guys, and the way they think, is that their argument is so completely entitled that it boggles the mind. We're being so nice to you! they seem to shout. Can't you see it's because I like you? Why can't you show your gratitude like a good girl and go out/sleep with me? What they don't seem to realise is that there is absolutely nothing "nice" about this sentiment. What they have essentially done is reduced the woman to a prize, an object, an asset that can be bought. What they do not seem to understand is that a woman's body is not a barter system; you do not "earn" a right to it, just by helping her move house, or letting her crash on your couch, or listening to her 3am panicked calls about her latest boyfriend. Being decent does not entitle you to liberties. If it did, then every little old lady I helped across the street should be paying me $20, because I'm so "nice". Does that happen? No. Is it something people expect should happen? No. So why do men expect that women will put out in return for kindness?
The reason why my boy and I fought this time was because of sex. I'm not a very sexual person; I like it, but it's not something I think about 24/7. My boy though, on the other hand, despite being 25, has the libido of a 15-yr-old. Every time I see him he wants sex. The moment I walk through the door of his house and hug him, he is trying to manoeuvre me towards his bedroom. When I finally put my foot down on this issue, his arguments to me were:
- You're so hot! You should be flattered I want to have sex with you all the time.
- When you don't have sex with me, I worry it's because you think I'm unattractive.
- Whenever we meet for a decent chunk of time, like several hours, and we don't have anything in particular we have to do, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect sex.
Put bluntly in point form above, it's quite easy to see why these arguments are problematic. But what's perhaps less obvious is that this is the Nice Guy movement in a nutshell. These guys are confused: why aren't all girls flattered by the fact that we find them sexually desirable? (Probably because we place more value in our lives, than to exist solely to please your dicks. It is not flattering in any way to be reduced to a pair of boobs and a vagina.) Why can't they see that I'm insecure about my appearance? (Because your insecurity is your own business - it isn't our responsibility to have sex with you, just to make you feel better about yourself. We don't exist solely to bolster your ego.) Why do they have to make such a big deal about it? I mean, we're both here! We have nothing to do! Other couples are having sex! Why can't we? (Because you expect it - because you are saying that my autonomy, my decisions, my willingness/unwillingness, doesn't matter. Because you see us girls as nothing more than a reward.)
There is nothing wrong with a woman saying no. There is nothing wrong with a woman saying no, even if you have bought her a car, or an apartment, or taken her on an impromptu trip to Spain.
There is nothing wrong with a woman saying no.
The car, the apartment, the trip to Spain: those were your decisions. You willingly spent the money and the effort to do those things. Nobody forced you. That is the lament of all Nice Guys: you didn't ask me to be nice to you, but I was, and now you won't appreciate me. The Nice Guy website states: "It's not hard to see that American women mostly suck once you begin to contemplate the radical idea that you might not be the problem". But guess what, boys? You are the problem. If you honestly believe that a woman owes you her body after you voluntarily, under your own volition, helped her to do a or b or c, then you are the problem.
And perhaps - just perhaps - that is why she said no.