I've never liked Fanny - I joined this community in part to try to reconcile my feelings about Fanny and about the book. I think I'm getting won over to the book, bit by bit. And maybe Fanny too.
Fanny starts off so painfully shy and so frustratingly passive. But in the last 2 chapters or so, we are finally starting to see a glimmer of inner character from her - she has opinions, but she feels frozen and incapable of expressing them. I can relate to that a little bit, so I'm starting to feel a teeny bit of sympathy for her. At last.
I joined the community late, and was hurrying to catch up (actually, I just caught up yesterday) - so I didn't mention this when it happened, but I saw some interesting early parallels between Mary Crawford and Fanny Price. Mary was orphaned and sent to live with her uncle. Fanny was poor and sent to live with her uncle. Mary's upbringing was rather inappropriate, it seems - which has definitely formed her character and the way she reacts in certain situations. Fanny's was pretty repressive, and I think that formed her character as well. Mary's aunt doted on her and considered Mary to be her protegee; how much would Fanny's life have changed - how much would Fanny herself have changed? - if someone (in a position of authority - Edmund doesn't count) had taken her under his/her wing?
I guess I'm thinking about a nature vs. nurture argument - how much of Fanny's attitude is a product of her poor treatment at the hands of the Bertrams? How much of Mary's attitude is because of things she was exposed to in the Admiral's house? How close is this parallel? Or have I taken things too far? :)
Re: Mary and FannyverrucariaAugust 9 2007, 20:29:50 UTC
How close is this parallel?
I can't guess to know whether Austen intended this parallel (or the nature vs. nurture thing), but it's nonetheless a good point in my opinion. They both certainly had been exposed to interesting family life!
I've also been finding Fanny annoyingly passive. Sure, I felt bad that she was reminded every day that she was the poor relation, but that didn't actually make her an interesting character (a lot of the time, she didn't even seem to mind it!). I'm glad that the recent chapters show some development of personality on her part.
Re: Mary and Fanny - slight spoileroutofivanhoeAugust 10 2007, 19:57:14 UTC
Slight spoiler for reference to future chapters... I'm not sure to what extent Fanny's character is just down to her 'nurture' in her uncle's household- I'm struggling to cast my mind back to the other time I read the book, but when Fanny visits her own family don't we get the impression she was always on the shy, passive side?
But it is true Austen seems to be making a major point about the effects of upbringing and good/bad parenting (or guardianship, I suppose), particularly as it relates to girls. Julia and Maria's various failings are often put down to their doting mother and aunt and distant father.
Heh, and in this way Edmund definitely shows up as a father figure for Fanny- her achievements or attitudes are at times attributed to him (she even does it herself, I believe?).
Re: Mary and Fanny - slight spoiler x2cheshire_cAugust 11 2007, 02:22:45 UTC
When I look at the similarities between Mary and Fanny, although there are similarities between their experiences, I can't help but notice that the biggest difference seems to be that the former is focused inward, on herself, while the latter is focused on what's (and who's) outside of her. My favorite demonstration of this is (of course) further on in the book (chapter 22), when the two are sitting in the shrubbery and Mary makes the remark about "the Doge at the court of Louis XIV". (I shall say no more at this time; wouldn't want to spoil anything!)
Another good example is when Mary's learning to ride on Fanny's horse, and she remarks on how she knew she was being selfish in riding longer and was depriving Fanny of her exercise, and was "behaving extremely ill". She then says, "Selfishness must always be forgiven you know, because there is no hope of a cure." I'm sure she meant to be clever, but it very clearly shows her self-interest. (Chapter 7)
Re: Mary and Fanny - slight spoiler x2elettariaAugust 11 2007, 09:18:20 UTC
Mary's selfish, granted, but I don't think she's primarily focused on herself. She's extremely interested in the society around her, she notices things that most other people don't, for instance the scene early on when she's trying to clarify Fanny's status. I think she connects more with other people than Fanny does, as well.
Fanny starts off so painfully shy and so frustratingly passive. But in the last 2 chapters or so, we are finally starting to see a glimmer of inner character from her - she has opinions, but she feels frozen and incapable of expressing them. I can relate to that a little bit, so I'm starting to feel a teeny bit of sympathy for her. At last.
I joined the community late, and was hurrying to catch up (actually, I just caught up yesterday) - so I didn't mention this when it happened, but I saw some interesting early parallels between Mary Crawford and Fanny Price. Mary was orphaned and sent to live with her uncle. Fanny was poor and sent to live with her uncle. Mary's upbringing was rather inappropriate, it seems - which has definitely formed her character and the way she reacts in certain situations. Fanny's was pretty repressive, and I think that formed her character as well. Mary's aunt doted on her and considered Mary to be her protegee; how much would Fanny's life have changed - how much would Fanny herself have changed? - if someone (in a position of authority - Edmund doesn't count) had taken her under his/her wing?
I guess I'm thinking about a nature vs. nurture argument - how much of Fanny's attitude is a product of her poor treatment at the hands of the Bertrams? How much of Mary's attitude is because of things she was exposed to in the Admiral's house? How close is this parallel? Or have I taken things too far? :)
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I can't guess to know whether Austen intended this parallel (or the nature vs. nurture thing), but it's nonetheless a good point in my opinion. They both certainly had been exposed to interesting family life!
I've also been finding Fanny annoyingly passive. Sure, I felt bad that she was reminded every day that she was the poor relation, but that didn't actually make her an interesting character (a lot of the time, she didn't even seem to mind it!). I'm glad that the recent chapters show some development of personality on her part.
Reply
But it is true Austen seems to be making a major point about the effects of upbringing and good/bad parenting (or guardianship, I suppose), particularly as it relates to girls. Julia and Maria's various failings are often put down to their doting mother and aunt and distant father.
Heh, and in this way Edmund definitely shows up as a father figure for Fanny- her achievements or attitudes are at times attributed to him (she even does it herself, I believe?).
Reply
Another good example is when Mary's learning to ride on Fanny's horse, and she remarks on how she knew she was being selfish in riding longer and was depriving Fanny of her exercise, and was "behaving extremely ill". She then says, "Selfishness must always be forgiven you know, because there is no hope of a cure." I'm sure she meant to be clever, but it very clearly shows her self-interest. (Chapter 7)
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