My issues with het...

[jane_elliot]

There are a lot of folks out there who refuse to read het.  I am not one of them.  However, based on the last few het stories I've read (or tried to read) over the last day or to, I'm starting to see why 'het' is gradually becoming a dirty word.

Some of my main recurring issues with het fic:
-Inevitably, no matter how non-maternal or actively anti-

Comments

[stfu_rightnow]

I agree with a lot of this - though I read pretty much everything, a large part of the reason I love (well done) slash is that it tends to portray very equal relationships. A lot of het fics (and couples in shows etc) don't get a lot of development, maybe because the writers assume everyone thinks guy + girl = instant true love. Slash fic tends to have more build up and work put into it, so it ends up being more believable (this only applies to well written fic, not everyone-is-gay fic or OOC seme/uke stuff). On the rare chance I find a well done het fic portraying the two as equals (without the obligatory domestic bliss), I love it just as much.

[stfu_rightnow]

And also, I don't want kids, but in my family - hell, with most people I know - it is a massive deal and inconceivable that a woman wouldn't want kids. Why??? Not everyone wants to have a big Greek family!! I had that growing up, is it hard to believe I might want something else in the future?

/end pointless tangent

[jane_elliot]

I feel your pain! I'm currently living in central Utah, where 90% of the population is Mormon. Since the Mormon church only recently changed their rules from 'have as many kids as you physically can' to 'have as many kids as you can support', the idea of someone wanting *no* kids is completely outside of their understanding. If I have to hear 'you'll feel differently when you meet the right man' or 'you'll feel differently when you have your own children', I'm going to scream.

[lothy]

As someone who definitely wants kids (and whose sister-in-law is pregnant, and whose sister can't have kids and is devastated about it) I have to admit that I can't really understand not wanting to have kids.

But that said, I would never presume to tell you that not wanting them is wrong, or that you'll change your mind in the future (as Jane said people tell her). Just because I don't understand someone doesn't mean that their feelings and opinions aren't just as valid as mine!

In regards to writing fic, though... I do dislike the idea (actually more common in published romance novels than fanfic, in my experience at least) that every het romance has to end with the woman pregnant. I mean, even if it's in character for her to want kids, does every fictional woman have to get pregnant THAT fast? Doesn't anyone think she deserves a few years of happy marriage first? It drives me insane that romance writers think that's the only possible happy ending.

[theficklepickle]

I think stfu_rightnow has said most of what I wanted to say but I just wanted to add my agreement. Unfortunately even in the 'real world' the relationship between a man and a woman is not always equal or respectful, especially once children enter the picture. There are far too many people - some of them professionals, even - who believe that a woman with a child is a woman without a brain. (And a lot of women who play up to the stereotype, too.) For me the attraction of writing slash is that being outside the cultural norm the guys have to think (okay, agonise!) more about everything. Their decision to get together and stay together is an informed one, and if they do end up with children it is usually because they have decided that they *want* them and are going to be equal partners in raising them. This can happen without invoking traditional man/wife roles

[lothy]

I have issues with this theory. I'm not discounting it: it may be valid in regards to some writers (presumably including you).

But I have to mention the incredibly prevalent occurrence of slash fic where one man is portrayed as the "woman" in the relationship and given all of the female gender roles. Clearly the authors of such fic are not sharing your sentiment.

I also resent the idea that it's not possible to write het fic without "invoking traditional man/wife roles". I know you probably didn't mean that, exactly, but it was kind of implied in the way you phrased things. Just because they're prevalent in society doesn't mean that a good writer can't subvert or completely ignore them.

[theficklepickle]

I'm not sure we entirely disagree but as you say it's a matter of emphasis and of personal experience - and also as someone said elsewhere it's a undoubtedly generation thing! And my experience of hetfic - as in fanfic at least - is seriously limited; it just isn't an area I explore, and there may well be excellent writers who are capable of throwing over the stereotypes. Unfortunately with all genres of fan fiction the bad writers outnumber the good by at least 9-1 so I think we can safely say that they are in the minority.

[dharma_slut]

Here via metafandom...

I think we are seeing two things here, and sometimes they coincide; If a male-privileged man takes on the role of wife-- he may have been coerced, or it might be because TWU LUB impels him; but it is NOT because his biology predestined him to it. And that might be what some of those writers are exploring, however hamfistedly...

And I agree, it's totally possible to write het fic without invoking traditional roles. But you see, that takes some self-awareness, and not everyone wants to look at themselves so closely. I would guess a certain percentage of fanficcers are avoiding that very thing, regardless of the presence of these discussions...

[lothy]

While I sympathise with your frustration at the fics you read, I think you simply read the wrong fics. There's plenty of het fics which don't fit any of the descriptions you mentioned. Though they may be more prevalent in certain fandoms/pairings.

Behavior that would not be considered acceptable in slash fic (stalking, manipulation, rape fantasies) are portrayed as romantic in het.

Um, where have you been??!! I've seen MASSES of slash fic with stalking, manipulation and rape fantasies. I hate it, but it's every bit as common as the het fic.

A complete aside, but if you're after a story where a woman absolutely doesn't want kids, try (published novel) Graceling by Kristin Cashore. It's fantasy and brilliant.

[jane_elliot]

It's very possible that I'm looking in the wrong places -- typically I look for het in my slash fandoms (since that's nearly all of my fandoms:) and I can see how it might be the case where most of the folks who like equal relationships in those fandoms gravitate towards slash and the ones who like unequal relationships gravitate towards het. Any suggestions for good mostly-het fandoms (except Austen)? Thanks!

And thanks for the book rec:)

[lothy]

Mostly-het fandoms? Hmm.

Star Wars. NOT the prequel fandom, which is mainly slash, but the original trilogy and EU fandom. No-one with even the slightest interest in characterisation could write Leia Organa, Mara Jade or Jaina Solo as unequal!

Alias, possibly? I'm not sure what the slash/het ratios are in the fandom but I wouldn't be surprised if they were het-heavy.

Buffy & Angel have masses of het... though also masses of slash, but the het probably outweighs it.

Bones is mostly het.

Doctor Who... I generally prefer the gen in DW fandom, but there's a *massive* het fandom.

I'm not active enough in X-Men fandom to know the slash/het ratios, but I do know that Rogue/Wolverine is very popular and has some great fics.

[jane_elliot]

Excellent, thanks! (Especially for SW OT and DW, which are two fandoms I've read nearly nothing in:)

[the_moogie]

Slash, as I have discovered, is not necessarily free of the "someone ends up pregnant" scenario. I love Shassie, but mpreg Shassie creeps me out.

[jane_elliot]

Yeah, I have to admit that I don't particularly understand the phenomenon of mpreg. If you want someone pregnant, why not write het? Unless (and this is my best guess for the genre) you like the idea of men having to suffer through pregnancy the same way women do?

[nemesishamartia]

... You've found mpreg Shassie?? Where? Because I really want to read that now, and I've only found one mpreg fic, and that was... um, really not that good.

[the_moogie]

I think the one I read was What Lies Within.

[abyssinia4077]

I have no idea which fandoms you read in, but in the fannish circles I travel in, what you're describing makes up a minority of the het (and most of the die-hard het people I know bemoan the type of fic you're describing as terrible). I actually encounter more slash fic with stalking, manipulation, rape fantasies, and one character dominating and controlling the other and taking charge of things because of the relationship.

Not saying there isn't het out there which does this, just be re-assured that it's far from all of it.

[jane_elliot]

Ooo, do you have any suggestions for good het fandoms/fics to read? I'd very much like to read some het fic that doesn't make me want to kick something (especially after the last few fics:)

[abyssinia4077]

I can try to put some recommendations together, sure (for fic - I have no idea which fandoms might be better or worse in this regard since every fandom I've ever encountered has been slash-dominated). (I mostly read SG-1 fic but I've hit stuff in a few other fandoms too. My fic reading preferences are probably gen > OT3+ > het > slash > badly written crap, but I read it all). Since I don't really know you or your tastes, can you give me a few guidelines for what you're looking for? What's an absolute no?

[jane_elliot]

Ooo, do you have Jack/Sam fic? Or anyone/Sam fic? Because I'd be all over that.

General likes:
-Loooooong, comple stories.
-Happy endings
-Fics where relationships are a significant focus (though they don't have to be the *only* focus)

General dislikes:
-Short fics and/or WIPs
-Unhappy endings
-Major character death (for SG-1, this would include, well, SG-1:)
-Non-con/rape
-Incest
-Chan
-BDSM (unless it's reaaaaally well done. And generally if I go this route, I prefer fics where the sex does not go smoothly)

Thank you!