I should have a Xander icon...

[eowyn_315]

Xander's acceptance of Spike is all part of his character arc in becoming “the one who sees everything,” as Caleb says. He spends a lot of season 6 being blind to things that are right in front of him, both in his relationship with Anya, and in not recognizing Buffy's and Willow’s spirals into self-destruction. Part of his blindness is his failure

Comments

[dawnofme]

I don't often sit back and think about Xander. It's not that I hate him, but he's not the character that interests me the most

[eowyn_315]

You know, I don't usually think about him, either! Other than this one story, I never write Xander-centric fic. This was mostly just what came to me when thinking of a response to the comment... but it turned out to be way too long for a comment, lol.

I personally saw him as the writer's self insert. Which I don't think is completely bad a thing.

You know, I thought of him that way at first, but the more I watch, the less I think that. I think he's definitely meant to be the "everyman" perspective, but the Buffyverse is so based in real issues (demons as a metaphor for life) that you don't really need an everyman. All the characters serve that purpose, by coping with real-life problems alongside the vampires. Sometimes battling your demons means financial problems, or relationship issues, or balancing school and work... and then sometimes it means, y'know, battling demons. :)

I did not like how he treated Anya. Except for one scene, I never got the feeling that Xander really cared for Anya.I definitely don't think it was the

[empresspatti]

Really good meta. I have always like Xander. He was everyman in a tough situation, doing his best.

As for season 8 - feh. I'm glad I don't know......

[eowyn_315]

Is it weird that I just thought, in a way, Xander was a better role model for women than Buffy? I mean, think about it... he's the regular guy, the one without the advantages, and he makes a go of it and does his best, standing shoulder to shoulder with people way more powerful than he is and claiming to be their equal. Isn't that what women ought to do in a man's world?

Er... yeah.

Anyway, the season 8 comics. I'm still amused by them, but they're getting harder and harder to take seriously...

[empresspatti]

he makes a go of it and does his best, standing shoulder to shoulder with people way more powerful than he is and claiming to be their equal.

Real food for thought. Both were good role models.

I never took any of it seriously (my karma for life)but S8 seems to me to be what happened between 'real' jobs. I'd be amazed if the verse continued once Dollhouse is up and running.

[eowyn_315]

I think Buffy as a role model works on one level, because it's a strong female character to look up to, but at the end of the day, she's still special and the rest of us aren't, which I think kind of dampens the message. That's why Xander's lot in life feels more like what we face in the real world.

And this is why you need all the characters... each one of them has some aspect that's important. :)

I'd be amazed if the verse continued once Dollhouse is up and running.

He's already talking about bowing out of the arc he'd intended to write (the final arc of season 8). Since he's the "executive producer" it could easily continue with other writers with his blessing, the way he's handed off Angel to Brian Lynch, which may actually be better for all of us...

[stormwreath]

Interesting stuff, and a way of looking at him that I'd not really considered before. He definitely seems much more mature and tough in S8, but like you say, that probably means something really, really bad is about to happen...

[eowyn_315]

Thanks! And yeah, if the pattern is any indication, Xander should be ready for another tumble any day now (possibly by falling off Dawn's back). :)

[rebcake]

I think you are right, overall, in where he ends up, but I felt cheated that none of the pivotal moments were shown on the show. After Angel, I don't think a soul would mean much to Xander, but if it did it would have been nice to hear him react to it with anything other than scorn (Him). At the beginning of Season 7, he's still ranting about Spike attempting to rape Buffy (Beneath You), which is something he is guilty of, himself (The Pack). It's true that he doesn't grind on about Spike sleeping with Anya, though, which is a sign of some awareness on his part. He harangues Buffy about her involvement with Spike when Anya goes on the rampage (Selfless). He bitches about Spike moving in (Him) almost as much as he did in Season 4 (Hush

[eowyn_315]

Yeah, there are definitely a lot of gaps in season 7 that could have better been filled in, and a lot of scenes I would've liked to see that there weren't time for, but I never saw this one as all that much of a leap.

In "Beneath You," I can understand him being angry, since he doesn't know about the soul, and as far as he can tell, nothing's changed since Spike left. I wouldn't really call it ranting, though - more like a stern reminder (as though Buffy could forget), and he backs down once Buffy assures him she can handle it.

I would say that his reaction in "Selfless" isn't really about Spike at all, it's about his feelings for Anya. He never actually says that Buffy's behavior toward Spike is wrong, he's just asking for the same consideration for his demon lover

[rebcake]

Well, yeah, in retrospect, by the middle of "Him" Xander has come to some sort of rapprochement with Spike. But man, at the beginning, he seems pretty much the same ol' angry young man. I like to think that his defense of Anya allowed him to see another perspective, but there's no evidence of it during the moving in speech

[eowyn_315]

For Xander, the soul equals no big whoop, apparently.

You know, I was thinking about this yesterday, and I think it goes back to an inherent difference between Angel and Spike, and the way Xander views them.

Xander definitely doesn't give much credence to the soul when it's about Angel, and I think it's because Angel (or rather, Buffy on behalf of Angel) tries to make the distinction between souled and unsouled as two different people. But Xander sees Angel and Angelus as more alike than different, so he's pretty much calling bullshit on that one.

But then souled Spike comes along. Spike never tries to escape the blame, he never tries to say he's not responsible for what he did while soulless. He actually tries to pretend that he's the same as he was before, even though it's clear (both when he's crazy and when he's sane) that he's not the same. And I think Xander sees that, and he understands the difference.

I'm sure some people have different views of the soul thing, but I'm of the opinion that it does make a difference - not

[slaymesoftly]

*waves hand* I don't hate Xander. I think - no doubt because of his obvious ups and downs - that he can be written in many ways. Which makes him a great character to work with. He can be the villain, the comic relief, the hero, the good friend, etc. and so on. *g*

[eowyn_315]

We should start a club, or a support group or something - "Spuffy fans who don't hate Xander." :)

[slaymesoftly]

LOL We could...you can only join the club if you've written something with Xander in which he is not something to hate or laugh at.

[eowyn_315]

Hee! Please send your fic submissions to weluvxandertoo@gmail.com and we will evaluate your eligibility.