Amen, sister friend, Amen!earth2marsMay 8 2007, 04:37:05 UTC
"it's still better than 95 percent of shit on TV these days." I think that's exactly it. I think that's why I still love it. Also, I'm still hoping there's a chance it will be great again, but even on its most awful nights, I'd still rather watch VM than anything else.
"That being said: CHECK V HITTING ON THE ARAB GUY." That was hilarious.
"I'm warming up to Piz" I never really had a problem with him. Initially when he was introduced, I worried (like many fans) that RT would make him VERONICA'S ONE TRUE LOVE. That scared me. However, I did like the idea of Piz being competition for Logan, and I also hoped that he would spark Logan's snarkiness. Nope. Ball dropped.
"I kind of like this side of Logan" I felt for Veronica during the Nice/Sensitive!Logan scenes. I put myself in her shoes and felt sad that I wasn't the one to make him so happy (who knows if he's really happy, though, right?).
"I've dated those activists types before and it's all animals and vegetarianism and poison ivy where the sun don't shine after camping trips." LOL!
"It's sad that Keith pays Wallace more mind than the kid's supposed BFF, but that line about Biggie was priceless." Oh. My. God. It totally was. I think that was my favorite line of the episode. :)
"And Wallace finally telling V to get a clue?" I loved that. He's done that before in previous seasons, but for the life of me, I can't recall a specific incident, I just know he's done that before. Wait--wasn't it with Jackie?
"At least we're getting L/V screen time and a very clear "not over each other" vibe." Amen!
Re: Amen, sister friend, Amen!em2mbMay 8 2007, 04:59:38 UTC
lazaefair and I just stared at each other when Wallace said that like, "Omigod, they didn't. Omigod, they just did. EARNEST PERRY."
Not that you, er, know who Perry is. But he was our angry black journalism teacher who pretty much thought all 400 or so of us were the damnedest bunch of racists with no idea how to be sensitive at all. And when Wallace said that, we went to our very special CCJ place.
Everyone's complaining that Logan's so out of character, but I don't see it. I mean, look at some of those times with him and V. They could do nice and normal (oddly, he's the one that wants it this time around - OMIGOD. NEW OTP. PARKER/DUNCAN) if she'd just let him try. I mean, he's a good guy, no matter what RT says. That scene in season one where he learns she was raped? And he just wants to make it better? I just wish she would have let him.
See, I think part of the thing is... yes, there are some big problems with VM. Like inconsistency/portrayals. I didn't appreciate the feminists at the first part of the season, but at the same time, I chuckled under my breath b/c I know people who do take it that step too far like the members of Lilith House. I don't know if people want to credit RT for that unflattering presentation, but it was real on some level. And the characterization isn't as bad as others seem to think. Veronica, I think, is actually fairly in character. She's all emotionally stunted and closed off, and it actually fits with the fact that THEY HAVEN'T DEALT WITH CASSIDY AT ALL.
But yeah. It's not season one VM, but it's not season three/four/five of Alias, either.
Re: Amen, sister friend, Amen!earth2marsMay 8 2007, 05:10:48 UTC
"Everyone's complaining that Logan's so out of character, but I don't see it." I know what you mean. I guess I never saw him as acting OOC; I just saw it as Logan showing a different facet of his personality. Does that make sense? I'm sure he would have enjoyed being that cheesy/sweet w/V but would she have let him? I don't think so.
"OMIGOD. NEW OTP. PARKER/DUNCAN" OMG, LOL.
"there are some big problems with VM. Like inconsistency/portrayals" Personally, I take a bit of an issue w/Parker's portrayal after her rape. I felt that Mac acted more like a victim than Parker ever did. But then, after I think that, I feel like an asshole b/c how the hell would I know how a rape victim would behave, you know? I know women who have been victimized but I was never there for the immediate fall out, so I have no idea how they reacted.
Also, the refusal to deal with Cassidy, was a huge mistake, IMO. I imagine RT didn't want to exclude new fans, but still, WTF? We're supposed to imagine it all took place off screen/off camera (WTH's the expression?) ?
I still feel that CW needed to do a VM retrospective before starting VM. A week or two before, they should have taken an hour or half-hour slot and used it to clue people in to who V is and what her story is. You know?
"It's not season one VM, but it's not season three/four/five of Alias" AMEN. And you know what? I still watched that show until the very end.
Re: Amen, sister friend, Amen!em2mbMay 8 2007, 05:39:46 UTC
Exactly. It's this unexplored part of Logan's personality, and I just wish the exploring could have been done with Veronica. I wish that they'd create drama on the show outside of L/V for a few episodes. Honestly, I think most of the fandom would have been happy to see an in-the-background healthy L/V relationship in exchange for a bit more of Mac or Wallace or dare-I-say Dick?
I still wish they'd deal with the Cassidy thing. Honestly, the way I read into that scene was that Cassidy had literally taken everything, and I don't just mean her clothes. How she's acted this season hasn't done a lot to change my mind. Parker is... honestly, I know a Parker. I know the girl that tries to pretend that it hasn't happened, and I really did like the more empowered Parker we saw in 3x09, volunteering with Take Back the Night and coming to V's rescue.
Similarly, I know a Mac, a Veronica, etc. It makes sense they would all deal differently, but goodness. I can't deal with the fact that it happens all off screen. One of the things I loved about season one was the willingness to portray V as a rape victim. That's new territory. Her desire to know, to solve her own rape - that intrigued me. They actually got a number of things right. It bothered me in season two when she went back to Duncan, but I just pretend that she realized it was wrong and just felt like she had to move on (I've known the girl that dated her rapist, too, unfortunately - and really, it's not that I'm just surrounded by all these "victims," but rather that I work in a clinic and they come to me) and did it all wrong.
But seriously. Other shows had recap episodes. WHY CAN'T VM?
Re: Amen, sister friend, Amen!earth2marsMay 8 2007, 16:20:28 UTC
"I think most of the fandom would have been happy to see an in-the-background healthy L/V relationship in exchange for a bit more of Mac or Wallace or dare-I-say Dick" YES! I totally agree.
RE: Mac. I thought Mac's behavior after the Cassidy thing was completely appropriate (I don't know if I said that earlier). It made total sense. She had a right to be so shook up. How could she not--she'd completely and utterly misread this guy. I know I would be unsure of myself had I totally been so fooled by someone I'd come to love.
"Her desire to know, to solve her own rape - that intrigued me." Just one other thing that made season one so fantastic and that saved season 2.
"I work in a clinic and they come to me" I remembered that. You've seen this (unfortunately) a number of times. I haven't --that's why I feel bad sometimes for criticizing the characterization of Parker as a rape victim.
Re: Amen, sister friend, Amen!em2mbMay 8 2007, 16:38:10 UTC
I really, really hope we don't get short changed when they finally bring up the Cassidy thing again. I'm glad that Mac's moved on (and rather with Max than Bronson!), but they still need to do something to close that chapter of VM. Since given Veronica's current attitude, we won't get it from her, I want some mention of Cassidy, somewhere. I'll take what I can get.
That's the thing (and something I'm not sure if everyone in fandom realizes). There is no one way to "deal" with a rape. It's this terrible and awful thing that we all approach very differently. The healthiest way is to seek some sort of counseling, of course, but that doesn't mean all girls react in the same patterns of blame and self-loathing and need therapy to deal. Ultimately, no matter how you approach it personally, I think it helps most when you seek help outside your own head. But yeah, RT's portrayal is kinda shoddy sometimes, but spot-on at others. Sometimes I think he gets it, and he's aiming for the right approach, and other times I think he just fires, hitting sometimes and missing at others.
It's hard for me because I'm that person that's always composing the next great novel in my head (Who am I kidding? For me, it's fan fic, all the time. I'll never write anything real), and I'm constantly going back to the parts of canon in VM that aren't explored. Given my own background and the usual storylines, I naturally go back to V's rape. So I'll probably end up with a shit ton of fics with my own interpretation, and at that point everyone that was yelling, "RT GIVE THE CASSIDY THING SOME SCREAM TIME" will change their pleas to "ELLE JUST LET IT GO."
I think that's exactly it. I think that's why I still love it. Also, I'm still hoping there's a chance it will be great again, but even on its most awful nights, I'd still rather watch VM than anything else.
"That being said: CHECK V HITTING ON THE ARAB GUY."
That was hilarious.
"I'm warming up to Piz"
I never really had a problem with him. Initially when he was introduced, I worried (like many fans) that RT would make him VERONICA'S ONE TRUE LOVE. That scared me. However, I did like the idea of Piz being competition for Logan, and I also hoped that he would spark Logan's snarkiness. Nope. Ball dropped.
"I kind of like this side of Logan"
I felt for Veronica during the Nice/Sensitive!Logan scenes. I put myself in her shoes and felt sad that I wasn't the one to make him so happy (who knows if he's really happy, though, right?).
"I've dated those activists types before and it's all animals and vegetarianism and poison ivy where the sun don't shine after camping trips." LOL!
"It's sad that Keith pays Wallace more mind than the kid's supposed BFF, but that line about Biggie was priceless."
Oh. My. God. It totally was. I think that was my favorite line of the episode. :)
"And Wallace finally telling V to get a clue?"
I loved that. He's done that before in previous seasons, but for the life of me, I can't recall a specific incident, I just know he's done that before. Wait--wasn't it with Jackie?
"At least we're getting L/V screen time and a very clear "not over each other" vibe."
Amen!
Reply
Not that you, er, know who Perry is. But he was our angry black journalism teacher who pretty much thought all 400 or so of us were the damnedest bunch of racists with no idea how to be sensitive at all. And when Wallace said that, we went to our very special CCJ place.
Everyone's complaining that Logan's so out of character, but I don't see it. I mean, look at some of those times with him and V. They could do nice and normal (oddly, he's the one that wants it this time around - OMIGOD. NEW OTP. PARKER/DUNCAN) if she'd just let him try. I mean, he's a good guy, no matter what RT says. That scene in season one where he learns she was raped? And he just wants to make it better? I just wish she would have let him.
See, I think part of the thing is... yes, there are some big problems with VM. Like inconsistency/portrayals. I didn't appreciate the feminists at the first part of the season, but at the same time, I chuckled under my breath b/c I know people who do take it that step too far like the members of Lilith House. I don't know if people want to credit RT for that unflattering presentation, but it was real on some level. And the characterization isn't as bad as others seem to think. Veronica, I think, is actually fairly in character. She's all emotionally stunted and closed off, and it actually fits with the fact that THEY HAVEN'T DEALT WITH CASSIDY AT ALL.
But yeah. It's not season one VM, but it's not season three/four/five of Alias, either.
Reply
I know what you mean. I guess I never saw him as acting OOC; I just saw it as Logan showing a different facet of his personality. Does that make sense? I'm sure he would have enjoyed being that cheesy/sweet w/V but would she have let him? I don't think so.
"OMIGOD. NEW OTP. PARKER/DUNCAN"
OMG, LOL.
"there are some big problems with VM. Like inconsistency/portrayals"
Personally, I take a bit of an issue w/Parker's portrayal after her rape. I felt that Mac acted more like a victim than Parker ever did. But then, after I think that, I feel like an asshole b/c how the hell would I know how a rape victim would behave, you know? I know women who have been victimized but I was never there for the immediate fall out, so I have no idea how they reacted.
Also, the refusal to deal with Cassidy, was a huge mistake, IMO. I imagine RT didn't want to exclude new fans, but still, WTF? We're supposed to imagine it all took place off screen/off camera (WTH's the expression?) ?
I still feel that CW needed to do a VM retrospective before starting VM. A week or two before, they should have taken an hour or half-hour slot and used it to clue people in to who V is and what her story is. You know?
"It's not season one VM, but it's not season three/four/five of Alias"
AMEN. And you know what? I still watched that show until the very end.
Reply
I still wish they'd deal with the Cassidy thing. Honestly, the way I read into that scene was that Cassidy had literally taken everything, and I don't just mean her clothes. How she's acted this season hasn't done a lot to change my mind. Parker is... honestly, I know a Parker. I know the girl that tries to pretend that it hasn't happened, and I really did like the more empowered Parker we saw in 3x09, volunteering with Take Back the Night and coming to V's rescue.
Similarly, I know a Mac, a Veronica, etc. It makes sense they would all deal differently, but goodness. I can't deal with the fact that it happens all off screen. One of the things I loved about season one was the willingness to portray V as a rape victim. That's new territory. Her desire to know, to solve her own rape - that intrigued me. They actually got a number of things right. It bothered me in season two when she went back to Duncan, but I just pretend that she realized it was wrong and just felt like she had to move on (I've known the girl that dated her rapist, too, unfortunately - and really, it's not that I'm just surrounded by all these "victims," but rather that I work in a clinic and they come to me) and did it all wrong.
But seriously. Other shows had recap episodes. WHY CAN'T VM?
Reply
YES! I totally agree.
RE: Mac. I thought Mac's behavior after the Cassidy thing was completely appropriate (I don't know if I said that earlier). It made total sense. She had a right to be so shook up. How could she not--she'd completely and utterly misread this guy. I know I would be unsure of myself had I totally been so fooled by someone I'd come to love.
"Her desire to know, to solve her own rape - that intrigued me."
Just one other thing that made season one so fantastic and that saved season 2.
"I work in a clinic and they come to me"
I remembered that. You've seen this (unfortunately) a number of times. I haven't --that's why I feel bad sometimes for criticizing the characterization of Parker as a rape victim.
Reply
That's the thing (and something I'm not sure if everyone in fandom realizes). There is no one way to "deal" with a rape. It's this terrible and awful thing that we all approach very differently. The healthiest way is to seek some sort of counseling, of course, but that doesn't mean all girls react in the same patterns of blame and self-loathing and need therapy to deal. Ultimately, no matter how you approach it personally, I think it helps most when you seek help outside your own head. But yeah, RT's portrayal is kinda shoddy sometimes, but spot-on at others. Sometimes I think he gets it, and he's aiming for the right approach, and other times I think he just fires, hitting sometimes and missing at others.
It's hard for me because I'm that person that's always composing the next great novel in my head (Who am I kidding? For me, it's fan fic, all the time. I'll never write anything real), and I'm constantly going back to the parts of canon in VM that aren't explored. Given my own background and the usual storylines, I naturally go back to V's rape. So I'll probably end up with a shit ton of fics with my own interpretation, and at that point everyone that was yelling, "RT GIVE THE CASSIDY THING SOME SCREAM TIME" will change their pleas to "ELLE JUST LET IT GO."
Reply
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