Women in the Jossverse
I review a lot and tend to get wordy. While doing a review the character of Lilah came up and I started to reply to the authors response but as it got longer and more off topic decided to post it here instead. I wonder if other saw the same things I did or if I've misread the subtext, missed something that others have caught
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I'm 61 - when I was growing up the only credible female with agency was Nancy Drew. There were no other role models. Women were subservient - it was understood that they took care of the home, shpped, cooled and cleaned - this was their real job. . The big story in the media, when feminism began, was whether women should be allowed to wear pants at work. My 2nd grade teacher was fired for getting pregnant. There were no women newscasters because only white men were considered to have that sort of authority.
That's where the movement came from. When Buffy showed up, it was pretty revolutionary. Only enough, making the women very powerful was seen as feminist because there were no role models who were powerful women - there were no serious shows with female leads where the female didn't need regular rescue. Women and girls were routinely objectified.
Oh, and Willow and Tara. My older daughter is gender fluid though she would prefer to wake up as a male - and she is also bi. Willow and Tar were huge for her. There were no other female characters like them - capable, independent and in love.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but this gives historical perspective on why it is considered feminist. It's an historical landmark.
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I will say that Tara and Willow did a LOT for breaking ground for LGBT roles being mainstreamed.
We're approximately the same age and I fully agree that especially compared to the shows when we were young it is quite feminist. I remember them still teaching the "little women" how to be proper wives and mothers and Mary Tyler Moore was the only career girl seen regularly. Wonder Woman had a bit of an empowered woman bit to it but again it was one with special powers. I think things have changed a lot since Buffy (it has been quite a few years even if it doesn't seem like it) and if done today perhaps some things would have been presented differently.
*hugs*
Kathleen
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Their abilities are never questioned based on the fact that they are women.
We see strong men appreciating strong women.
There are all the issues that are mentioned above, but this is one area where BTVS got it right.
There are a few exceptions, but the pattern was positive.
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There were episodes that were powerful and outstanding commentary on male/female relationship especially on abusive relationship. Some that come to mind are Beauty and the Beast and The Pack and Ted. Riley, deals with cultural patterns and I think of it as the continuation of Ted but in the real world setting of the B&R relationship.
For contrast we have Homecoming and the iconic Helpless when Buffy without her superpowers defeats Kralik and has to face the betrayal of her father figures Giles and her father Hank and the attempt by CoW to take control of Buffy's powers and life. We have the all important transformation and mythic symbolism of Buffy's rite of passage and becoming the completed Powerful Slayer when she kills Angel to save the world. However, she is sent right back into the young woman in love who is overwhelmed by her emotional need for her lover - even worse is how totally she is taken control of by her emotional need and love for Angel that she is willing to commit murder to save him. The series always, IMO, does this Give and Take regarding Buffy as a woman while it is her SuperPowers Slayer who is given the role of the strong and powerful and able to make the hard choices and take command when it is vital.
There are many other episodes that deal with the power or abuse of the female characters.
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I would have died to have Buffy as a girl - a serious show about powerful women! Realistic powerful women - they cried, and liked clothes, and made mistakes, and weren't just there to be either sweet virgins, housewives, or bad girls/femme fatales.
I was born in 55 so I was a teen in the 70's - when the movement was fresh and there were so many institutionalized prejudices. I remember being told I could be a nurse, teacher, or secretary - and to marry someone rich. You go to college to get you Mrs degree.
Buffy came along 20 years later - and now it's 20 years after Buffy.
It's sad that too many women don't really know their own history - that feminism changed so many norms. Too easy to believe it was always like this - and damn, this is what we fought for so it's good. :D
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Feminists were those crazy (sex crazy) girls all burning their bras and wanting to be men! *sigh* I became a mainframe programmer in the mid 1970's and you needed Sherlock Holmes to find women in the department for YEARS...by the 1990's when I left the IT world it was more common but still no real parity. I never understood how writing COBOL code required a penis.
I was lucky to be raised in a household where it was assumed I could be whatever the hell I wanted to be if I learned how and kept applying. That was rare. I well remember my friends "education" about how to be a proper wife and homemaker. *gag* I remember them telling about how they were trained that a "good wife" always greeted her husband when he came home from his hard job supporting the family in certain ways. The house had to be immaculate. The wife should have dinner ready so that after he did a bit of unwinding it could be served hot and tasty. The wife should have herself and the children all cleaned up and dressed nicely (makeup on the wife too). Do not bother the hard working husband with complaints or problems or any sort of unpleasant mess. It was your job to create a place of peace and tranquility in his so hard life! And if the husband cheated??? Well likely you had "let yourself go" or had made his life more difficult so it was "only natural" he looked elsewhere for the peace and pleasure that were his right! Yes, I heard that from a slew of my friends so it must have been standard. Geez they taught the proper order to wash dishes in home ec classes! (first silverware then glasses because they touch the lips, then dishes.......and so on. This was the tripe we were to learn!). And yes, the goal for college was to land a husband.
MTM was a comparative breath of fresh air because she had a job and life (like a few other shows then) and yes it still all involved those other messages, reminders that even IF we went for a career that a man was the goal to have a happy life and that we had to stay "good girls" or we could never get the good man to make out life complete, that we would be punished for our waywardness.
I remember it well.
In perspective, yes, Btvs was a great boost as was Xena. I think the things that bother me might have to be placed in context of the time and I do not discount the positives in any way!
Yeah we had a hard fight and it's not anywhere over yet! There is still a gender pay gap. There are MANY glass ceilings to break. There are still occupations where a woman has little chance to get a foot in the door. There is still discrimination. It is still harder for a woman to juggle family and career. Rights over out bodies are being challenged. The beat goes on as Sonny and Cher once sang. I guess it's a work in progress.
*hugs*
Kathleen
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