Since it's technically now a new month...
Pat provided me with some new (albeit old) fodder for the monthly debate. So, let's recap:
Rules:
Be nice.
Be cool.
Don't be a jackass.
Other rules:
If you feel comfortable with it, please introduce yourself and tell a little about your own religious beliefs or political affiliations if you feel that it contributes to your view point.
If you have strong feelings about opposing or alternate beliefs/viewpoints, please don't flame, but try to give a respectful explaination of what has influenced your opinions and beliefs.
If you have links to papers, articles, other things that you feel might be related, please do link, it adds flavor.
Today's topic of debate:
Pat is a law student at Boalt Hall School of Law at UC Berkeley, and is currently studying for finals. In his study of the First Amendment, he poses us with the following question:
Is it good, in a free society, for someone to be fired for exercising his right to free speech (ala Don Imus)?
Basically, this question is most recently about Don Imus, but there is a larger universal issue rooted in this. I think part of the debate is adequately identifying what that root issue is, but there are plenty of fascinating things to discuss in regards to the specific situation of Don Imus and the Rutgers Women's Basketball team. If you don't know what the heck I'm talking about, an excerpt of his actual comments can be found here.
Again, I'll put my thoughts under the cut.
In regards to the specific situation of Don Imus, and what he said on the air, I think his statement was both sexist and racist. The point is well taken that it is hardly the most offensive thing I have ever heard, and rap artists frequently make far more disparaging comments about Black Women. But, that does not excuse what Don Imus did. By all accounts, the young women who were called out on the air without any provocation are nothing but upstanding models of what we want Student Atheletes to be. Don Imus shot from the hip and made a judgement about them solely on appearance.
Do I think he is a racist, a sexist, or a bad person? Probably not, although I'm not going to be nominating him for the Nobel Peace Prize anytime soon. Was what he said racist, sexist and bad? Unequivocably. I'm going to try to not judge the person (something I think he failed to do). I'm judging the actions.
In a truly free society, actions should have consequences. Whenever the race card or the sex card is played, the immediate defense is something to the effect of "I'm not a racist," or "anyone who knows me will tell you that this is not how I am."
Well, Mr. Imus, I don't know you. All I know is what you did. And this is how most people will know you. So, on the surface, there's not much difference between you and a racist or sexist. It's really too bad. You do wonderful charity work. And that will likely suffer because of your actions. If you truly believe in that work, you should know that it depends on many factors, like your ability to generate revenue. If you jepordize that, you jepordize that work.
That's why it's such a shame that your first reaction to the fallout was to say that everyone is out to get you. Did you really believe that what you did was ok? That there shouldn't be any consequences for it? If so, maybe you really are a racist and a sexist. Like I said, on the surface, there aren't any differences between you and them.
So, should Don Imus have been fired, even though he was just exercising his right to freedom of speech? Absolutely. Freedom does not imply a lack of consequences. Freedom is a key ingredient of virtue, and virtue is sustained in large part by the existence of consequences. Consequences are good.
So, thoughts, comments, concerns, questions and rants?
Please begin!
Rules:
Be nice.
Be cool.
Don't be a jackass.
Other rules:
If you feel comfortable with it, please introduce yourself and tell a little about your own religious beliefs or political affiliations if you feel that it contributes to your view point.
If you have strong feelings about opposing or alternate beliefs/viewpoints, please don't flame, but try to give a respectful explaination of what has influenced your opinions and beliefs.
If you have links to papers, articles, other things that you feel might be related, please do link, it adds flavor.
Today's topic of debate:
Pat is a law student at Boalt Hall School of Law at UC Berkeley, and is currently studying for finals. In his study of the First Amendment, he poses us with the following question:
Is it good, in a free society, for someone to be fired for exercising his right to free speech (ala Don Imus)?
Basically, this question is most recently about Don Imus, but there is a larger universal issue rooted in this. I think part of the debate is adequately identifying what that root issue is, but there are plenty of fascinating things to discuss in regards to the specific situation of Don Imus and the Rutgers Women's Basketball team. If you don't know what the heck I'm talking about, an excerpt of his actual comments can be found here.
Again, I'll put my thoughts under the cut.
In regards to the specific situation of Don Imus, and what he said on the air, I think his statement was both sexist and racist. The point is well taken that it is hardly the most offensive thing I have ever heard, and rap artists frequently make far more disparaging comments about Black Women. But, that does not excuse what Don Imus did. By all accounts, the young women who were called out on the air without any provocation are nothing but upstanding models of what we want Student Atheletes to be. Don Imus shot from the hip and made a judgement about them solely on appearance.
Do I think he is a racist, a sexist, or a bad person? Probably not, although I'm not going to be nominating him for the Nobel Peace Prize anytime soon. Was what he said racist, sexist and bad? Unequivocably. I'm going to try to not judge the person (something I think he failed to do). I'm judging the actions.
In a truly free society, actions should have consequences. Whenever the race card or the sex card is played, the immediate defense is something to the effect of "I'm not a racist," or "anyone who knows me will tell you that this is not how I am."
Well, Mr. Imus, I don't know you. All I know is what you did. And this is how most people will know you. So, on the surface, there's not much difference between you and a racist or sexist. It's really too bad. You do wonderful charity work. And that will likely suffer because of your actions. If you truly believe in that work, you should know that it depends on many factors, like your ability to generate revenue. If you jepordize that, you jepordize that work.
That's why it's such a shame that your first reaction to the fallout was to say that everyone is out to get you. Did you really believe that what you did was ok? That there shouldn't be any consequences for it? If so, maybe you really are a racist and a sexist. Like I said, on the surface, there aren't any differences between you and them.
So, should Don Imus have been fired, even though he was just exercising his right to freedom of speech? Absolutely. Freedom does not imply a lack of consequences. Freedom is a key ingredient of virtue, and virtue is sustained in large part by the existence of consequences. Consequences are good.
So, thoughts, comments, concerns, questions and rants?
Please begin!