This is so funny that you're posting this, because I was just thinking along the same bandwagon. After ending up with two conversations with movie people as to what a light-hearted superhero Iron Man is, and being all um, okay. And in retrospect I can totally see why they think that, but of course the comics caused me to read a few things differently. (Tony bringing a high-tech drinks cooler to the desert? Funny for everyone else and cute yet TRAGICALLY SAD for me.) Should be a weird and awesome fandom. Though I am training myself now not to deliver random lectures of canon to anyone who hasn't asked, because I remember how well that went over in X-men fandom.
Though I am training myself now not to deliver random lectures of canon to anyone who hasn't asked, because I remember how well that went over in X-men fandom.
I totally understand that impulse-- it's like hearing someone get basic details about the American Civil War wrong, or all the people during that wank over orphan works legislation a few weeks ago who didn't actually know what orphan works were. I am compelled to correct people, because the idea of them continuing in ignorance is actively painful (I probably did it to you early on, I'm sure, because I know you're an Ultimates fan, and people bringing up Ultimates spurs the same "must provide correct information" urge in me).
I think my ultimate low point was when a Magnificent Seven fic actually got me to the point of yelling something along the lines of "Confederate blockade runners used steamships, not sailing ships! Any they didn't pay in gold because they didn't have any! They paid in cotton! Cotton! How stupid are you?" at my computer screen. Thank God the fic was
( ... )
(Oh, I was a little terrified of the entire fandom after that conversation. I won't lie. :) But that's the risk you take when you post in a new fandom or an old one, so I got over it. And I still like the Ultimates. I'm used to having odd tastes in all my fandoms, so.)
I just did the auto-correct thing to someone over the weekend who isn't in fandom, just an acquaintance I was chatting to, so he wasn't even aware I read comics. And so probably wasn't prepared for the vehemence of my response. I felt oddly guilty afterwards. I don't want to scare off any newbie who might potentially write me really good Tony angst, but yeah, that urge sneaks up sometimes.
Though in my Stargate fandoms it's fairly acceptable to comment politely and be like, yeah, hi, the military doesn't work like that. I guess it does depend on the established interaction rules of the fandom. So maybe I'm concerned over something no one will even mind.
You mean Jack and Daniel/Jack and Sam (with Sam and Jack still maintaining their respective positions on the SG1 team) wouldn't actually be allowed get married in a tasteful ceremony in the gateroom? *is shocked and astonished*
Though of course, there are also the comparatively minor background things, like giving an F-15 the wrong number of engines, or not grasping that the Marines and the Air Force have different rank systems (i.e. that there is no such thing as an air force private), or a host of other background details that are relatively easy to correct but will really throw people out of the story if they're wrong.
I'm commenting here because I really wanted to praise you. I spent all day reading RR&R, it's sequel, and the roughest day. Your fics were beautiful. The prose flowed freely, your characterization were amazing, and you had actual and thought out plots. I've been reading fanfiction almost obsessively for 5 years and published books just as obsessively for about 15 years; this was some of the best stuff I've ever read. Thank you for posting the stories.
There is a long and convoluted explanation for this, involving people's inability to keep from irrationally projecting their own issues with American politics onto comicbook storylines a recent and very controvercial Marvel crossover event called Civil War.
I'm going to call foul here; it isn't projecting, it was a deliberate use of the symbols and imagery of the 'war on terror' and neocon philosophy, and then they validated it as righteous correct. Since I'm revolted by a universe where they've changed the central premise to "do what the rich white men say, because they know what is best for you", not to mention celebrating imprisonment without trial and maltreatment of people for being born different, I bailed out.
This hasn't interfered with my fondness for the character in the past, or in universes where they haven't gone all authoritarian's paradise (all hail Marvel Adventures Avengers and Iron Man), but I feel quite justified in despising the current MU and nearly all their living characters.
I debated actually posting this reply, since it's so personal and emotional, but here goes (though I want to stress that it's not aimed at anyone in particular, and is more about my feelings than anything else).
I wasn't saying that people's opinions on real world politics were irrational, but that some fans seemed to be unable to set aside their RL anger over RL political stuff when it came to evaluating what was going on in the comics (which contained/contains some strong parallels to a variety of real life events, but isn't a direct 1:1 mapping onto them in all respects). I saw commentary on things like The Confession from people who were venting about real world politics and projecting their wrath onto Tony with a level of vitriol that made me physically ill. Here was a comic that had affected me on an emotional level so deep that it had literally changed my life, and all some people saw in it was hate, was Tony "gloating
( ... )
The people in charge of Registration blatantly do not have anyone's best interests at heart, from endorsing evil cloning projects (Initiative)to knowingly working with terrorists like the Mandarin (Secretary of Defence Koning in Iron Man, who didn't know he was dealing with the Mandarin, but did know he was working with a probably terrorist who wanted to develope biological weapons), to putting people like Bullseye and the Green Goblin back on the street. I don't think the reader is supposed to support the SHRA and the things it's led to -- I think you're supposed to look at what the government there is doing, look at the example of blind hatred that is people like Miriam Sharpe, and consider it critically. Or at least, in titles that are well done and throughtful (not touching Brand New Day with a ten foot pole, and Dan Slott's pretty hit or miss, too), like the Knauf's Iron Man: Director of SHIELD and Brubaker's Captain America and even to a certain extent Bendis's New Avengers (not Mighty Avengers, which was all Yay Genderswapped
( ... )
Took the word "irrationally" out. Leaving the bit about projecting real world political issues onto Tony and co. in. To be fair, I'll freely admit that I project some real life personal and emotional isses onto comics, so it's not like I have any high ground in terms of being unbiased.
This is very cool. Thanks for linking it to starkindustries, guys!
And seriously. If anyone knows a fic that isn't at http://del.icio.us/Grey_Bard/IronMan please tell me. I really do try to have everything, but I know I could easily miss something.
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I totally understand that impulse-- it's like hearing someone get basic details about the American Civil War wrong, or all the people during that wank over orphan works legislation a few weeks ago who didn't actually know what orphan works were. I am compelled to correct people, because the idea of them continuing in ignorance is actively painful (I probably did it to you early on, I'm sure, because I know you're an Ultimates fan, and people bringing up Ultimates spurs the same "must provide correct information" urge in me).
I think my ultimate low point was when a Magnificent Seven fic actually got me to the point of yelling something along the lines of "Confederate blockade runners used steamships, not sailing ships! Any they didn't pay in gold because they didn't have any! They paid in cotton! Cotton! How stupid are you?" at my computer screen. Thank God the fic was ( ... )
Reply
I just did the auto-correct thing to someone over the weekend who isn't in fandom, just an acquaintance I was chatting to, so he wasn't even aware I read comics. And so probably wasn't prepared for the vehemence of my response. I felt oddly guilty afterwards. I don't want to scare off any newbie who might potentially write me really good Tony angst, but yeah, that urge sneaks up sometimes.
Though in my Stargate fandoms it's fairly acceptable to comment politely and be like, yeah, hi, the military doesn't work like that. I guess it does depend on the established interaction rules of the fandom. So maybe I'm concerned over something no one will even mind.
Reply
You mean Jack and Daniel/Jack and Sam (with Sam and Jack still maintaining their respective positions on the SG1 team) wouldn't actually be allowed get married in a tasteful ceremony in the gateroom? *is shocked and astonished*
Though of course, there are also the comparatively minor background things, like giving an F-15 the wrong number of engines, or not grasping that the Marines and the Air Force have different rank systems (i.e. that there is no such thing as an air force private), or a host of other background details that are relatively easy to correct but will really throw people out of the story if they're wrong.
Reply
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I'm going to call foul here; it isn't projecting, it was a deliberate use of the symbols and imagery of the 'war on terror' and neocon philosophy, and then they validated it as righteous correct. Since I'm revolted by a universe where they've changed the central premise to "do what the rich white men say, because they know what is best for you", not to mention celebrating imprisonment without trial and maltreatment of people for being born different, I bailed out.
This hasn't interfered with my fondness for the character in the past, or in universes where they haven't gone all authoritarian's paradise (all hail Marvel Adventures Avengers and Iron Man), but I feel quite justified in despising the current MU and nearly all their living characters.
Reply
I wasn't saying that people's opinions on real world politics were irrational, but that some fans seemed to be unable to set aside their RL anger over RL political stuff when it came to evaluating what was going on in the comics (which contained/contains some strong parallels to a variety of real life events, but isn't a direct 1:1 mapping onto them in all respects). I saw commentary on things like The Confession from people who were venting about real world politics and projecting their wrath onto Tony with a level of vitriol that made me physically ill. Here was a comic that had affected me on an emotional level so deep that it had literally changed my life, and all some people saw in it was hate, was Tony "gloating ( ... )
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And seriously. If anyone knows a fic that isn't at http://del.icio.us/Grey_Bard/IronMan please tell me. I really do try to have everything, but I know I could easily miss something.
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