(Untitled)

Nov 02, 2004 01:00

At the eve of the first 2004 presidential debate, I decided that I wouldn't ride the emotional rollercoaster of this election year's last few weeks -- I decided to condition myself for a Bush victory. If Kerry actually won, great, but if he lost I wouldn't feel traumatized. I accepted that Bush and Cheney would stay in power, that civil liberties ( Read more... )

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The morning after... anselan November 3 2004, 03:50:34 UTC
We all have our things, our own personal talking points that make and break the unwritten but all to often spoken contracts the candidates make.

Cheney's line was that Kerry = more Terrorism
Kerry's line was that Bush = A draft, and the death of medicare

They're all liers.

They've always been liers.

At the best of moments they're ones that we can throw our weight behind, and feel comfortable supporting them in the face of an even bigger world that's not on our team - at others times we're biased and bigotted and spit upon the ground they walk upon because they are what they'll always be.

The good and honest people don't run for politics, unless they're being manipulated by the politicians.

Having watched this election play out, no matter which way Ohio ends up swinging in the end I just hope we return to the normalicy of liers accepting the results of the election numbers as they come up - and we don't see another election drug into the legal system.

...

I'm not sure I'm really happy with this comment, or that I even believe it. But it's definately what's in my head right now.

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Re: The morning after... elno November 3 2004, 22:54:35 UTC
Stretching the truth is part and parcel of modern American politics. I can live with that. There's actually more truth to the draft issue than you think -- the stop-loss order means many active forces are no longer volunteer, and this will only spread. But this response isn't about the details. Public debate and the fourth estate can expose the political lies.

It's when debate is thrown out the window and fear turned into an instrument of power, that's when the line is crossed.

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Re: The morning after... anselan November 4 2004, 04:07:13 UTC
Sorry I don't buy that the Republican's leveraged fear any more then the Dem's.

Remember, I've been unemployed for a month with nothing more to do then play video games and follow the election. So you prescribing the level at which I'm informed on various topics, especially topics that could potentially effect me, doesn't hold a lot of water with me. My cousin is in the military, and I've talked to him about this - you sign for a time, but there's always the chance they'll order you to stay longer if they need you. He knew that signing up, and I think the rest of the guys who read their agreement going in realize that as well. (They don't seem to mind all that much, as the military vote is estimated to be as much as 87% for Bush)

It appears that the tool that was used was not fear though, so much as morality. (At least according to the 'oh so reliable' exit polls) I believe to disagree with a person's moral stand point is a perfectly valid issue on which to base a vote. I don't even think it can be classified as an emotional vote.

Bush ran the country the way he felt he needed to run the country, and it looks like more of the country agreed with him in it then thought they would in 2000.

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Re: The morning after... elno November 4 2004, 15:51:32 UTC
If you don't see a world of difference between "your Medicare premiums will rise" versus "the terrorists will probably attack us" then we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

"Bush ran the country the way he felt he needed to run the country, and it looks like more of the country agreed with him in it then thought they would in 2000."

Actually, no -- the same polls say that the majority think the country is headed the wrong way. Fear and, as you mentioned, morality (which in this case is really religion) were brought to bear so that the red state voters voted for four more years. At a time when the country is engaged in two wars, the Republicans managed to make gay marriage a prime issue for voters.

And as for agreeing with how Bush ran the country, that's probably because they're viewing the country and the world through rose-colored glasses.

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_10_21_04.html

If you'll look at the numbers above, you'll see how woefully misinformed the majority of Republican voters are.

72% still believe Iraq had WMD or a WMD program.
75% still believe Iraq supported al Qaeda in November 2001.
63% believe evidence for the above has been found.
55% believe that was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission.

Mind-boggling. It's like they're living in an alternate reality.

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Re: The morning after... anselan November 4 2004, 17:21:43 UTC
Sure I see the difference between premium hikes and "You'll get blown up" - but all the fear boils down to 'You'll die' or 'You'll be so poor you'll die'. (The draft is a threat of death, losing medicare/social security is a threat of poorness/death) But yah, agree to disagree

And I think that the Leno show has shown us for years that a fair portion of our society is made up of blithering morons. I would say there's as many people who voted democratic who think that Bush is responsible for the lack of flu shots as people who actually believe some of things you stated. I really think those numbers are overly high.

I also know that there are people who voted on the other side of the ticket feel that those of us who voted for Kerry are just as dillusional. I'm talking about intelligent educated people as well.

I don't want to turn into a Republican apologist though. So I'll drop it from here.

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