Questions for Fandom or Active Women in HP
[mood| 
confused]
[music|Atomic Kitten - Ladies Night ]
Okay, I'm reading a lot of these discussions on women in HP, and what with the accusations of misogyny being thrown around, I'm having misgivings getting into this at all. But these are debates that come up often so I want to find out where I stand once and for all.
For what it's worth, it seems to me that the basic divide is the disagreement between whether the female characters drive the plot in any significant way. Some feel that this is the case, while others don't. What affected me the most however, was this exchange between Aja and Gun that I think really got into the heart of the issue. I think there are excellent points on both sides; and while I agreed with Aja for the most part, I could see where Gun was coming from. But in trying to compose my reply I got quite lost in all these questions, so help me here.
These are questions that have been bothering me throughout, I'm putting them up to find out what you guys (well, HP fandom in general) think. So help me find out whether my views contain any internalised misogyny. :-)
Question 1 - Is it wrong to scrutinise female characters in this way? Are we harsher on the female characters than than the male? Does this kind of scrutiny lead to misogynistic readings?
Question 2 - Is it wrong to want female characters to affect the main plot of the story in a lasting/profound way? Or should we be more accepting and supportive of women characters regardless of whether they are "enablers" or in supportive positions?
Question 3 - If we value active female characters, does it mean we're somehow dissing the passive ones?
I'm thinking of gunderpants's statement that Yes, but in that implication you're privileging something that's stereotypically seen as being a masculine trait (physical activity and action) over what is stereotypically seen as being a feminine trait (emotional action).
Because regardless of whether you think the women in HP are strong characters or whether they affect the plot, this is IMO what the discussion revolves around. And action is usually privileged in most cases (hence the popular phrases like "Talk is cheap") since it has a direct impact on the plot.
So can we value action over emotion without associating either trait with a specific gender? How much of this debate is caused by the gendered context of the words "action" and "emotion"?
Going ahead with this thought in mind:
Question 4 - Is wanting women to be active (or display a stereotypically masculine trait) a way of privileging said masculine trait?
And in a somewhat related manner: I hear about complaints of "feminising" a male character in slash fics (also keeping in mind the negative connotations of the term)... So is making a male character passive, or making him display a stereotypically feminine trait a way of "feminising" the character?
Question 5 - Seeing the disagreement over whether the female characters are affecting the main plot in any way - and this is where a lot of personal interpretations clash - According to you where does the area of passive or 'reactive' stop and the area of the active or 'pro-active' begin? Because it seems that people have differing ideas of where to draw that line.
Question 6 - And I'm not sure I shouldn't asking this rhetorically - How does one decide which actions directly affect the main plot when there are so many characters contributing to different plots and subplots in a series as rich and diverse as HP? Those actions that have consequences beyond one book? Those that are sources of emotional conflict between characters? Different stokes for different folks - we all have our ideas on this.
Basically, I just want everyone to stop throwing these implicit accusations of misogyny on each other. I know it's back to business as usual now that our brief bout with Fanlib and SixApart is over, but really, let's hold off the wank until Book 7 hmm?
Also,OMG I turned 20 while typing this post! Whoo-hoo! Have two decades of experience under my belt now... Can't say I'm sorry to leave my teens behind. *g*
confused]
[music|Atomic Kitten - Ladies Night ]
Okay, I'm reading a lot of these discussions on women in HP, and what with the accusations of misogyny being thrown around, I'm having misgivings getting into this at all. But these are debates that come up often so I want to find out where I stand once and for all.
For what it's worth, it seems to me that the basic divide is the disagreement between whether the female characters drive the plot in any significant way. Some feel that this is the case, while others don't. What affected me the most however, was this exchange between Aja and Gun that I think really got into the heart of the issue. I think there are excellent points on both sides; and while I agreed with Aja for the most part, I could see where Gun was coming from. But in trying to compose my reply I got quite lost in all these questions, so help me here.
These are questions that have been bothering me throughout, I'm putting them up to find out what you guys (well, HP fandom in general) think. So help me find out whether my views contain any internalised misogyny. :-)
Question 1 - Is it wrong to scrutinise female characters in this way? Are we harsher on the female characters than than the male? Does this kind of scrutiny lead to misogynistic readings?
Question 2 - Is it wrong to want female characters to affect the main plot of the story in a lasting/profound way? Or should we be more accepting and supportive of women characters regardless of whether they are "enablers" or in supportive positions?
Question 3 - If we value active female characters, does it mean we're somehow dissing the passive ones?
I'm thinking of gunderpants's statement that Yes, but in that implication you're privileging something that's stereotypically seen as being a masculine trait (physical activity and action) over what is stereotypically seen as being a feminine trait (emotional action).
Because regardless of whether you think the women in HP are strong characters or whether they affect the plot, this is IMO what the discussion revolves around. And action is usually privileged in most cases (hence the popular phrases like "Talk is cheap") since it has a direct impact on the plot.
So can we value action over emotion without associating either trait with a specific gender? How much of this debate is caused by the gendered context of the words "action" and "emotion"?
Going ahead with this thought in mind:
Question 4 - Is wanting women to be active (or display a stereotypically masculine trait) a way of privileging said masculine trait?
And in a somewhat related manner: I hear about complaints of "feminising" a male character in slash fics (also keeping in mind the negative connotations of the term)... So is making a male character passive, or making him display a stereotypically feminine trait a way of "feminising" the character?
Question 5 - Seeing the disagreement over whether the female characters are affecting the main plot in any way - and this is where a lot of personal interpretations clash - According to you where does the area of passive or 'reactive' stop and the area of the active or 'pro-active' begin? Because it seems that people have differing ideas of where to draw that line.
Question 6 - And I'm not sure I shouldn't asking this rhetorically - How does one decide which actions directly affect the main plot when there are so many characters contributing to different plots and subplots in a series as rich and diverse as HP? Those actions that have consequences beyond one book? Those that are sources of emotional conflict between characters? Different stokes for different folks - we all have our ideas on this.
Basically, I just want everyone to stop throwing these implicit accusations of misogyny on each other. I know it's back to business as usual now that our brief bout with Fanlib and SixApart is over, but really, let's hold off the wank until Book 7 hmm?
Also,OMG I turned 20 while typing this post! Whoo-hoo! Have two decades of experience under my belt now... Can't say I'm sorry to leave my teens behind. *g*