people sitting around talking about politics: the fic

[elizabeth_hoot]

Basically, it's a compressed, talky version of the stuff that I was thinking through with my Lothíriel fic all those years ago. This isn't that, I just got to thinking about it when I came across a random reference, and considering where my Lothíriel might have gotten all those seditious ideas from. :)

title: princes of the city
fanverse: canon, more

Comments

[anonymous]

You know, I always find it rather amusing when, in fics, Denethor/Faramir supporters call Aragorn "usurper". For generations, the Stewards of Gondor ruled the kingdom in the name of a King they didn't believe existed anymore and wouldn't accept if he ever did return. They didn't make a play for the "rights and dignities of a King" (partly because it would not be tolerated it, I would think), but they didn't seem to have any qualms about claiming the authority.

[elizabeth_hoot]

Glad to amuse, I guess

[anonymous]

"Given that the king in question undoubtedly did die and was the last of his house, they were hardly mistaken to think he no longer existed. I do think it's questionable to assume that they wouldn't have accepted a valid heir of Anárion

[elizabeth_hoot]

I don't think it's questionable that the Stewards, claiming that they ruled only in the King's place, after a point in time did so safe in the knowledge that effectively they would rule Gondor till they died.

Okay? Yes, Mardil--the one who came to power when Eärnur disappeared--must have known that Eärnur wasn't coming back and he would be ruling in his place for the rest of his life. It was his duty to do so and, to go by his epithets, his assumption of power is in fact widely regarded as an act of faithfulness. And that's the only point I can think of where the actions of any Steward might have been considered a usurpation by Gondorians. The others simply inherited his established authority.

But how likely was it that a) there was an heir who had for some reason not appeared for centuries and b) that said heir could actually produce proof of his claim strong enough to convince Stewards who were probably very unwilling to be convinced?

It's canon that there weren't any valid heirs, thanks to the effects of the Kinstrife. So...?

[elizabeth_hoot]

And I do think it is obvious from Denethor's and Boromir's attitudes that the Ruling Stewards came to regard this situation as permanant and would react very badly to any attempt to challenge it.

Well, yeah? Even Faramir wasn't especially enthusiastic about the idea. But after that long the entire question would be academic. The only controversy up to then was young Boromir thinking they should be kings and Denethor explaining why it would be inappropriate.

My point here is that the Stewards' rise to lordship over Gondor was not merely legal but obligatory--there was no controversy, no precedent to overturn, not even a dramatic change, since the position had gradually become more powerful, and it seems that Mardil was already the power behind the throne. And that would have been the Ruling Stewards' most vulnerable point. A millennium of competent, uninterrupted rule later, their position is virtually ironclad.

Their reaction to the thought that Aragorn might press his claim is telling: Aragorn is a stranger to Gondor, he has no