DW 9.05. The Girl Who Died
Sorry this is so late, and scattered/basic. But it’s been a busy week... Mostly I'm just skimming the surface, picking out the main things I can see, without delving below in any kind of detail.
OTOH then Vikings/Norse mythology is stuff I am good with. (Nordic girl here.)
( Read more... )
OTOH then Vikings/Norse mythology is stuff I am good with. (Nordic girl here.)
( Read more... )
However, one must stress that in contrast with "The Waters of Mars", the stakes aren't as high, Ashildr's life or death is not a fixed point, the Doctor doesn’t know anything about her. If he had simply revived her with no reprecussions, nobody would or could call it hubris.
And as I think is evident through his epiphany, his words and his actions, it’s the difference between “Screw the Rules, I Make Them!”, and “Screw the Rules, I'm Doing What's Right” (TWOM- TGWD):
He isn’t trying to rewrite fate but fight fate. He doesn't want to be (he knows better than that now), he's not being a god who chooses who's important and who isn't, but fighting, willing to defy the gods who would not see the inherent preciousness of a single young life that might be saved ( ... )
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You are absolutely right, it's not a fixed point. And re. hubris, then originally it was the only thing that sprang to mind when I was watching the trailers, so I keep it in mind. A Ten-and-Rose-in-S2-vibe. As for the Doctor's actions here, then I shall wait and see what your opinion is on this matter after you've seen The Woman Who Lived. (Hopefully that post should be up sooner than this one!) Please don't post spoilers here, I'm trying to keep posts (and my thoughts) separate! ;)
He isn’t trying to rewrite fate but fight fate. He doesn't want to be (he knows better than that now), he's not being a god who chooses who's important and who isn't, but fighting, willing to defy the gods who would not see the inherent preciousness of a single young life that might ( ... )
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Already seen it, but I’ll be there ;)
Ah, but is it 'right' to make someone immortal?
Well, he himself is like “I fucked up, I wasn’t thinking”.
He's not saving her, he's making her something other than human, someone almost like himself (because the Doctor isn't actually immortal.) Actually, both this episode and the next (which is why I’ll explain this in detail in your next post if you want), draw many parallels between her and the Doctor; and also, some pieces of dialogue seem to indicate that we are not talking about complete, *infinite* immortality, it’s more that Ashildr is extremely “durable” let’s say, and ageless. Therefore, I think she *can* die, be killed at some point ( ... )
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The episode does a good job at looking at it (as you will know) and I deal with it in my meta - so I shall let it go for now. :)
one shouldn’t really see the two as equal incidents; because like you said too, purest of motives, and completely different circumstances (no fixed point -which are BAD, NO TOUCH etc).
I quote this line (from Voyage of the Damned) in my next meta:
COPPER: Of all the people to survive, he's not the one you would have chosen, is he? But if you could choose, Doctor, if you decide who lives and who dies, that would make you a monster.
But he’s like “well, since *you* don’t, I’ll have fun, and prove it to you too in the process, by enormously exploiting your mindset and making you suffer, heh he he”. (I’ll elaborate if you want). I think you have described *Moffat's* mindset, not Davros'. And no ( ... )
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Well, I think the problem is that Moffat himself sometimes doesn’t distinguish between the two, and that creates confusing dialogue or character actions, when it comes to who knows/believes/wants what. Hey, nobody’s perfect.
And no, I still don't think Davros has any idea that he somehow caught the Doctor in-between abandoning & saving him. From his POV the Doctor probably merely found a way to get through the handmines, that's why he momentarily disappeared. If he knew that the Doctor initially intended to leave him to his fate, he'd be FAR more impressed. See, that is a valid point when you consider Davros’s character, you are right. However, in my opinion, there are logical contradictions and inconsistencies within the episodes themselves, which force me to “read” the plot and the character actions/knowledge/motivations in an alternative manner to be completely satisfied. (For instance, again, if Davros doesn’t know, then why does he expect him to be willing to go to ( ... )
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LOL. I much prefer this approach to simplicity. :)
However, in my opinion, there are logical contradictions and inconsistencies within the episodes themselves, which force me to “read” the plot and the character actions/knowledge/motivations in an alternative manner to be completely satisfied.
Oh, I'm not saying you don't have a point. I can only say how it works most logically in my mind.
For instance, again, if Davros doesn’t know, then why does he expect him to be willing to go to almost certain death just because his archenemy asks him to, why does he presume that the Doctor feels *guilty* -which the Doctor does- and exploits it?
Because through saving Davros the Doctor caused unparalleled death & destruction, indeed the murder of his own kind?
If you want, you can read my “Doctor Who: Concerning Davros's ( ... )
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