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lilachigh September 20 2014, 22:15:48 UTC
I am one of those people who have big issues with Listen. All your points are beautifully made and researched but can I add just one thing ( ... )

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elisi September 21 2014, 09:12:41 UTC
As it happens, I dealt with this in a previous post. I shall copy & paste the relevant part, and then expand on my point.

Doctor Who (the character, the story of the show, as opposed to the show itself) is England/Britain (post-Empire), trying to come to terms with where we're at now. This is not deliberate, I don’t think, but the story of Britain in the past 50 years is clearly reflected in the show. Gallifrey was known as the Shining World of the Seven Systems, and at the peak of its power, it was often said that "the sun never sets on the British Empire", because its span across the globe ensured that the sun was always shining on at least one of its numerous territories. But the glory days of Gallifrey were over by the time the Doctor ran away; the Time Lords a bunch of daft old geezers in silly hats arguing amongst themselves. Until the re-booted show when they (and their once great empire) was gone for good - and the Doctor was left alone, trying to work out who and what he was now ( ... )

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kaffy_r September 21 2014, 17:37:33 UTC
Yes. This is why I read all the comments in threads built on your meta.

(And Tennyson; it hits me in a certain spot. It also amuses me, sort of sadly, that Jacob Clifton, a writer I respect and who loved RTD's Who, but who retreated in a great deal of anger from Moffat's Who, more's the pity, used Tennyson as a touchstone for his examination of Nine and Ten's journey. (

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elisi September 21 2014, 17:51:33 UTC
Yes. This is why I read all the comments in threads built on your meta.
The comments often bring out all the extra bits that I couldn't fit in... (Promethia and I have a whole conversation going about how the Doctor was raised 'Space British'.)

And Tennyson; it hits me in a certain spot.
It was at that point I fell completely in love with Skyfall. Just - no going back.

It also amuses me, sort of sadly, that Jacob Clifton, a writer I respect and who loved RTD's Who, but who retreated in a great deal of anger from Moffat's Who, more's the pity, used Tennyson as a touchstone for his examination of Nine and Ten's journey.
I don't understand that sort of reaction. Well, I despise the Buffy comics because they are pretty much misogynistic, and Miracle Day was atrocious, but if there was more Torchwood I'd probably still watch...

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elisi September 21 2014, 09:34:26 UTC
Going with James Bond first (as that is a more blunt and direct example) then compare and contrast James Bond in Dr No and Skyfall ( ... )

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