TSE/JE re-watch thoughts.

Jun 09, 2012 23:41

Soooo, we might have re-watched TSE/JE this evening...

Cut for chatter )

ten is meta catnip, doctor who

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promethia_tenk June 10 2012, 12:44:15 UTC
That's about the best explanation I've got. But, really, if you don't feel in your soul that TSE/JE is horrible television, I'm not sure what I can do to explain it to you. *snugs*

By the way, what are your feeling on the S3 finale & Tinkerbell!Jesus? For comparisons sake...
I think it's become my favorite of the four season finales? That's not an endorsement! But I can see how people *can* like that one. I've got a truckload of issues with it, but those are mostly philosophical. It's probably the pinacle of my disagreement with Rusty about his handling of the Doctor (because from that point on he's truly falling apart and at least you're seeing consequences, where this still feels basically celebratory).

As a piece of television, though, I think they're faaaaaaar better done than TSE/JE. They're much more focused; they have real weight to them. And I'll admit that the batshit spectacle and magical thinking irked me when I was first watching, but I've come to love those when Moff does them, so I suppose my beef wasn't really with the insanity, just what it was being used for.

Annnnd my feelings about Tinkerbell!Jesus Doctor are pretty much just my feelings about the whole finale condensed into two minutes.

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promethia_tenk June 10 2012, 15:13:41 UTC
Wait, I forgot about the part when the Master turns the Doctor into a house elf with his laser screwdriver. That part is shit.

And many other parts, really. But on balance, comparatively good.

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elisi June 10 2012, 17:57:40 UTC
Wait, I forgot about the part when the Master turns the Doctor into a house elf with his laser screwdriver. That part is shit.
This is why having your own pocket universe is a good thing. From one of my Alex fics (the context is basically that he and the Doctor are arguing because the Doctor has forced Alex to go to university for an undisclosed 'crime' on Alex's part, and Alex is NOT happy with this - Allison, his girlfriend, is eavesdropping):

It’s just... I can’t live locked up like this. I thought you’d understand. I mean you were in cage once, remember? I’ll stay in my cage, I swear, just open the door...”

A beat, then Alex’s uncle replied, his voice having lost all warmth.

“I’m not sure that’s a parallel you should bring up.”

Another beat, then there was a stifled chuckle.

“I didn’t- I didn’t mean the actual cage! I was thinking of the time you were in exile!”

“Ah. Well. That’s different,” the Doctor replied, and then, when Alex clearly couldn’t stop chuckling, adding, “It wasn’t funny!”

“But... you looked like Dobby!”

“Alex! Do I need to remind you that it was an extremely painful experience?”

“Sorry...” Alex cleared his throat.

Kids, eh? *g*

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promethia_tenk June 10 2012, 18:24:23 UTC
Dobby jokes are always funny; this is just fact =D

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elisi June 10 2012, 20:18:49 UTC
This is very true.

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elisi June 10 2012, 18:03:28 UTC
That's about the best explanation I've got. But, really, if you don't feel in your soul that TSE/JE is horrible television, I'm not sure what I can do to explain it to you. *snugs*
Well it's total crack. I just like crack. (Also see my love of Torchwood...)

I think it's become my favorite of the four season finales? That's not an endorsement! But I can see how people *can* like that one.
I am genuinely giggling now.

I've got a truckload of issues with it, but those are mostly philosophical. It's probably the pinacle of my disagreement with Rusty about his handling of the Doctor (because from that point on he's truly falling apart and at least you're seeing consequences, where this still feels basically celebratory).
Ah yes. Although... I always went straight for all the layers - the Doctor turns VERY dark in S3 (esp re. the Family of Blood), and the Master is so *obviously* his (very uncomfortable) mirror - showing what the Doctor could - oh so very easily - become. Sure it does that thing of making the Doctor look good (which isn't hard in comparison with an evil megalomaniac), but still... Look beneath and everything is murky.

As a piece of television, though, I think they're faaaaaaar better done than TSE/JE. They're much more focused; they have real weight to them. And I'll admit that the batshit spectacle and magical thinking irked me when I was first watching, but I've come to love those when Moff does them, so I suppose my beef wasn't really with the insanity, just what it was being used for.
*nods a lot* S4 has themes, but the finale is just this giant extravaganza, whereas S3 is beautifully focussed.

Annnnd my feelings about Tinkerbell!Jesus Doctor are pretty much just my feelings about the whole finale condensed into two minutes.
That is actually a good description.

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promethia_tenk June 10 2012, 21:41:19 UTC
Well it's total crack. I just like crack. (Also see my love of Torchwood...)
I like crack too . . . but these episodes cross some crucial line where I can't *both* enjoy them as crack and have any kind of investment at all in anything that's happening. You know I've never actually managed to really watch what happened to Donna? It's not because I find it too upsetting; it's just every time I've tried I've stopped caring looooonnnng before. Consequently, I'm not sure that I actually have opinions on Donna's fate :-\

Ah yes. Although... I always went straight for all the layers - the Doctor turns VERY dark in S3 (esp re. the Family of Blood), and the Master is so *obviously* his (very uncomfortable) mirror - showing what the Doctor could - oh so very easily - become. Sure it does that thing of making the Doctor look good (which isn't hard in comparison with an evil megalomaniac), but still... Look beneath and everything is murky.
Euh, unfortunately that doesn't do much for my desire to smack Rusty. At least he had the Master go through with dying. There was a terrifying moment when I thought maybe he wouldn't and I was going to have to never watch this show again.

*nods a lot* S4 has themes, but the finale is just this giant extravaganza, whereas S3 is beautifully focussed.
There's a lot of cheap spectacle in S3 . . . . but at least it's not empty.

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elisi June 11 2012, 19:03:24 UTC
I like crack too . . . but these episodes cross some crucial line where I can't *both* enjoy them as crack and have any kind of investment at all in anything that's happening.
Now I'm wondering where my high crack-tolerance level came from... *ponders*

You know I've never actually managed to really watch what happened to Donna? It's not because I find it too upsetting; it's just every time I've tried I've stopped caring looooonnnng before. Consequently, I'm not sure that I actually have opinions on Donna's fate :-\
I'd consider that a plus.

Euh, unfortunately that doesn't do much for my desire to smack Rusty.
EVERYONE IS A MONSTER, EVEN THE DOCTOR. EXCEPT HE IS WONDERFUL, BECAUSE HE'S THE HERO. [error error does not compute and Bowie Base One explodes]

There's a lot of cheap spectacle in S3 . . . . but at least it's not empty.
Oooooh no. *is still in thrall to show 5 years later b/c of S3*

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promethia_tenk June 11 2012, 22:23:03 UTC
I'd consider that a plus.
In my personal version of the show Donna just sorta stopped being in episodes and the Doctor couldn't talk to her any more. I guess the Doctor stole Donna's prom date or something. The season four finale was when they all went to the prom, wasn't it? And then Davros spiked the punch and Rose made out with the clone of the captain of the football team. See, I was watching!

EVERYONE IS A MONSTER, EVEN THE DOCTOR. EXCEPT HE IS WONDERFUL, BECAUSE HE'S THE HERO. [error error does not compute and Bowie Base One explodes]
*smack*

OT: I really need this Prometheus movie to go away rather soon--I'm continually fighting off the feeling that people are talking about me.

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elisi June 16 2012, 09:31:07 UTC
In my personal version of the show Donna just sorta stopped being in episodes and the Doctor couldn't talk to her any more. I guess the Doctor stole Donna's prom date or something. The season four finale was when they all went to the prom, wasn't it? And then Davros spiked the punch and Rose made out with the clone of the captain of the football team. See, I was watching!
Just some belated adoration for this. Rarely have I seen such a succinct and admirably level-headed summary of the events of those episodes.

*smack*
*snerk* But it's rather accurate, y/y?

OT: I really need this Prometheus movie to go away rather soon--I'm continually fighting off the feeling that people are talking about me.
THIS. I keep wanting to go see it, and then I realise that it's just because I subconsciously associate it with you, and I really have no particular interest in Alien...

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promethia_tenk June 16 2012, 16:37:40 UTC
Just some belated adoration for this. Rarely have I seen such a succinct and admirably level-headed summary of the events of those episodes.
*bows* This is a public service that I provide.

*snerk* But it's rather accurate, y/y?
To an almost painful degree *admires*

THIS. I keep wanting to go see it, and then I realise that it's just because I subconsciously associate it with you, and I really have no particular interest in Alien...
That's oddly flattering and just a little bit scary . . .

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Prometheus elisi October 12 2012, 22:48:06 UTC
OT: I really need this Prometheus movie to go away rather soon--I'm continually fighting off the feeling that people are talking about me.
Watched it tonight. It's... a thing.

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Re: Prometheus promethia_tenk October 13 2012, 01:18:35 UTC
The reviews sounded rather mixed. I decided not to care since I don't believe in movies anymore : P

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Re: Prometheus elisi October 13 2012, 11:34:07 UTC
Well there was nothing on TV, and we started looking at movies on pay-per-view, and it was like 'Hey - let's watch Prometheus!' and Darcy pulled down the big screen and so we watched and then went to bed because it was LATE and we were very tired.

This morning Darcy said to me: "That film... I didn't 'get' it."

(And this from an MA film student.)

I didn't either.

It was very nicely made, and looked gorgeous and the robot was *brilliant*. (As was Charlize Theron's character, although sadly she was underused.) But all the stuff with the aliens (the sorta-humans that in the movie 'verse engineered the world) was just... a blank. Made no sense. It was obviously trying to be philosophical and ask deep questions, but either the film makers didn't know enough philosophy or they didn't know how to translate it into a movie. 'Twas just weird.

The only good thing was discovering that apparently the nasty toothy alien monsters that chew their way through humanity were created as a kind of biological weapon. Don't know WHY though, which is what makes it even more frustrating.

ETA: Honest Movie Trailers is spot on! That really is the whole thing summed up.

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Re: Prometheus promethia_tenk October 14 2012, 12:21:18 UTC
HaHA! Well, now I'm kinda intrigued again. Also, when they kept talking about black goo, I'm glad they made the X-Files joke, because that was . . . a really confusing and pointless plotline in The X-Files too *g*

I read a pretty interesting article on this film, actually, that was wondering if Prometheus wasn't television finally looping around to influence movies again, adopting the open-ended, philosophical mystery that drives highly serialized shows . . . as an aesthetic in its own right? Rather than as a way to drive forward the series.

But the filmmakers may have missed the part where that's only interesting when you're going to get another episode next week, and that people get fed up with you if they realize they're just never going to get answers. You can't make a really, really expensive tv pilot, slap it on the big screen, and expect people to be impressed.

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