Meta: The God Complex.
This week’s Doctor Who is without a doubt one of my favourite things ever. It was beautiful and heartbreaking and hit one of my major, major kinks and it also - miracles of miracles - treated religion with intelligence, rather than just steal some imagery and then sneer. Basically it was [metaphorically, and literally] 1 Corinthians 13, 11-12 in
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Yes, the "Williams" is a shorthand to differentiate and I can see why they did that. I wish they hadn't used "Williams" though, because it implies Amy Pond can't be grown up *unless* she has her husband's name. There are all sorts of unfortunate implications there.
The Doctor never really stopped seeing Amy as that little 7 year old girl (which was undoubtedly one reason he would never ever go there with her), and the hard work to restore her faith in him worked too well - her belief is that of a child's, who believes completely and without question.Yes, this. And this is why I wish they'd kept the Amelia/Amy distinction from "The Big Bang" onwards, to emphasize that the Doctor thinks of her as Amelia. (E.g., the Doctor could have ( ... )
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Tiresias, although a mere spectator and not indeed a 'character', is yet the most important personage in the poem, uniting all the rest. Just as the one-eyed merchant, seller of currants, melts into the Phoenician Sailor, and the latter is not wholly distinct from Ferdinand Prince of Naples, so all the women are one woman, and the two sexes meet in Tiresias. What Tiresias sees, in fact, is the substance of the poem.
Moffat, in many ways, does the same. He tackles the general through the mundane. In telling the specific story of Amy and Rory, he is making points about couples and love generally. (Which makes the Doctor (and/or River) Tiresias I guess. Storytellers...)
In "The Eleventh Hour," "Amy Pond" is the adult identity she chooses for herself. By using Pond/Williams instead of Amelia/Amy as the childhood/adult distinction, it essentially says to me that "Amy Pond" is--well, not a false identity, but--only temporary, if that makes sense. Like she's caught somewhere in between "Amelia ( ... )
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And this whole "Pond" business, a body of water, a reflective surface, "nature's mirror," as it was put in the pirate episode... it made the Ponds mirrors to the Doctor. Both of them, both of them become like the Doctor. Revoking "Pond" breaks the mirror.
Williams, that's a name that derives from "will-helm," literally "protection of the will." It's a good name, not because it's Rory's, but in the fairy-tale sense that it implies the protection of one's ability to choose.
What did you think of the Doctor's claim that he stole her childhood?
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That's what I was trying to say, yes. :)
And this whole "Pond" business, a body of water, a reflective surface, "nature's mirror," as it was put in the pirate episode... it made the Ponds mirrors to the Doctor. Both of them, both of them become like the Doctor. Revoking "Pond" breaks the mirror.
*nods* Pond = River = water = time... All Doctor.
What did you think of the Doctor's claim that he stole her childhood?
He certainly did originally. The Amy he found 12 years later was angry and brittle and unable to trust anyone, certainly not him. He fixed it, in th end, but he is taking responsibility for everything in that moment, so he reminds her of his broken promises, since that's at the heart of everything.
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Well welcome to [here, have some tea and virtual cookies], and sorry it took me this long to reply. Life sort of decided to be awesome and VERY BUSY!
Brilliant and spot-on. I love it.
*beams* You can stay. Oh yes. ;)
I said somewhere else earlier that the Doctor had to let Amy and Rory go, that he had to *let go of them*. He may be a person who needs people, but he needed to recognize that he had reached a point that his kind of need is not necessarily a good thing for the people he's come to rely on.*nods* All good things must come to an end. Especially if they've been going on for too long. I keep comparing the goodbye here with the Doctor slipping off in The Big Bang - the difference in emotion couldn't be greater. Then he was dancing up the stairs, happy that the universe was saved and that his friends were safe, that he was still alive and ready for new adventures, as they set off on their ( ... )
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What is the Doctor afraid of? We hear the cloister bell, but I don't think the death of the TARDIS is his greatest fear.
My mind is always processing and working through things for days and sometimes weeks after an episode airs. I've been considering what he found behind the door marked "11" and, while in the shower this morning, came up with a possible alternate idea: maybe it was the actual TARDIS he found behind the door, the cloister bells ringing because of the extreme danger. It would also explain why he'd marked the door with a "Do Not Disturb" sign. I didn't see where he got that from, though. Was it the back of the door?
So, if "11" wasn't his "trigger" room, perhaps the room with little Amelia sitting on her suitcase was meant for him, not Amy? It's so easy to trick the audience into thinking Amelia was meant for Amy, but based on what the Doctor said to try to destroy Amy's faith made him "face up" to himself and his flaws. If he can't believe in his own abilities ... we' ( ... )
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Thank you, and hello! Loved your post btw, and was going to comment, except this was eating my head at the time. Lots of my thoughts went into my own post though, so thanks for interesting ideas! :)
My mind is always processing and working through things for days and sometimes weeks after an episode airs.
Oh you and me both. Which is why I rarely post anything before at least the middle of the following week - I need to let everything percolate, then then work out what I think about it. Mmmm, meta. <3
I've been considering what he found behind the door marked "11" and, while in the shower this morning, came up with a possible alternate ideaYour idea intrigues me, but... I can't see it. Not that the show isn't sneaky at times, but we have to trust that when something is shown to us, it is what it is. I mean... the simplest way of explaining the little girl in the spacesuit, who could regenerate, was that she was Amy and Rory's and would grow up to be River. And this was indeed the case. ( ... )
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based on what the Doctor said to try to destroy Amy's faith made him "face up" to himself and his flaws. If he can't believe in his own abilities ... we're kinda screwed.
Oh he's ALL bluster! Here, I shall let the mighty Moff speak for me (I love Moffat, I truly truly do):
"...[The Doctor is] just a lunatic who’s capering around trying to have lunch somewhere nice, and all these people think that he’s this massive, mighty foe... I think that’s a fun thing to play with. Because we know he isn’t. We know he hasn’t even got a plan. He can’t even drive the box. We know that’s not true. So I think that makes it a fun thing to play with. It’s a dangerous card for the Doctor to play because the more he makes his enemies fear him, the more powerful they will become in response to what is, in fact, an unarmed man who can’t drive."
From the podcast for Forest of the Dead, with Moffat, RTD and DT, talking about the moment when River whispers the Doctor's name in his ear:
Moffat: And I have to say, David, I think your performance in this is ( ... )
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Though I must say, I prefer C.S. Lewis' version: "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." Which is more like what I took away from 'The Eleventh Hour'. This one totally harshes my fairytale. =P
Also, there are so many mirrors that I can't even see straight anymore.
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I saw your post, but didn't read it, since I actually own The Curse of Fenric and intend to watch it, and I don't want to be spoiled. :)
Though I must say, I prefer C.S. Lewis' version: "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
I ADORE C.S.Lewis. <3
Which is more like what I took away from 'The Eleventh Hour'. This one totally harshes my fairytale. =P
Well we have two episodes left, so - unless things go very, very wrong - we should have our fairytale back at the end of the season! :) Plus, remember Rule 27: Never knowingly be serious!
Also, there are so many mirrors that I can't even see straight anymore.
*nods*
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Fenric's a pretty good one, especially as a companion piece to God Complex.
I can't help but think of Rule 1, but I'm trying to figure out what part of it might have been a lie because I'm pretty sure he believed all or most of what he said. Knowing the Doctor, I'm inclined to think that "we'll see each other again" was a lie, but knowing Moffat, I'm 99.9% sure that Amy and Rory's story is not over.
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Like destroy Amy's faith.
Like leave Rose behind.
Like destroy his own people.
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